The almost imperceptible glow ....

William Tasso · Sep 11, 2006

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:05:48 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:04:39 +0100, "William Tasso"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>> Found a likely looking alternator lurking in the garage - has external
>> black boxes bolted to the case, one connects by lead to a spade, the
>> other
>> is flying loose - rf suppressors? Unfortunately this unit looks to be
>> the
>> cack-handed version IYSWIM - the hinge bolts are the right dimensions
>> but
>> the stabilising/locking bar won't connect. Might get me round the
>> block,
>> but I wouldn't want to go far on that set up.
>
> check how many bolts hold the 2 ends of the case together. If it's a
> 3-bolt
> one then it can be rotated - undo the 3 bolts and turn the one end wrt
> the
> other. You'll need to drill out the thread in the adjuster bar bolt hole
> and use a nut and bolt.

ok - thanks Austin & Karen

I looked at the two units for a long time yesterday, thinking that such a
conversion 'must-be' possible - simply couldn't see it. Fresh day (and
your posts) brought encouragement & enlightenment

No thread in the lugs - maybe this unit has already been 'touched'.

Any clues on the black boxes? marked: 06-90 (which reads the same either
way up).

This unit has the three-blade system as well as the two posts (B+ & W) and
is marked: Autostart A472 - $search-engine reveals nought of use on this.

If I can make this plan work then I can take a more relaxed approach to
fixing the original unit.

Thanks all.
--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

Austin Shackles · Sep 11, 2006

On or around Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:01:05 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:04:39 +0100, "William Tasso"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >
>> >Found a likely looking alternator lurking in the garage - has external
>> >black boxes bolted to the case, one connects by lead to a spade, the
>other
>> >is flying loose - rf suppressors? Unfortunately this unit looks to be
>the
>> >cack-handed version IYSWIM - the hinge bolts are the right dimensions but
>> >the stabilising/locking bar won't connect. Might get me round the block,
>> >but I wouldn't want to go far on that set up.
>>
>> check how many bolts hold the 2 ends of the case together. If it's a
>3-bolt
>> one then it can be rotated - undo the 3 bolts and turn the one end wrt the
>> other. You'll need to drill out the thread in the adjuster bar bolt hole
>> and use a nut and bolt.
>>
>> if it's a 4-bolt one (bosch ones seem to be, mostly) then this doesn't
>work.
>>
>> You can also convert from 3-blade system - the 2 fat browns go to the
>output
>
> Which is probably labelled B+ (meaning battery positive and will be the
>large one)
>
>> terminal on a bolt-type and the skinny brown-and-yellow goes to... erm...
>B+
>
> 'Skinny brown-and-yellow' will go to terminal probably marked F (field)
>or W/L (warning lamp)
>
>> I think. usually a smaller botl terminal or sometimes a single 1/4"
>spade.

yeah, not B+. I've seen them labelled D+ though. I didn't have one to hand
to look at.

W is the terminal that outputs AC and can be used for a rev counter.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"If you cannot mould yourself as you would wish, how can you expect
other people to be entirely to your liking?"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xvi.

Greg · Sep 11, 2006

"Derek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> It was available as a factory option Ammeter Kit #607696 (or 607734 if
> supplied with other electrical extras), includes gauge wiring loom 2
> bracket s washers and fitting screws and bolts. an oil pressure gauge was
> also listed. I knew that download of the Factory Options Series Land Rover
> would be useful.
> Derek

I've found the details, thanks Derek, I have to do some major rewiring as
the loom's in a sorry state so may re-connect the ammeter.
Greg

William Tasso · Sep 17, 2006

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:44:26 +0100, William Tasso <[email protected]>
wrote:

[previously ...]

>>>
>>> Found a likely looking alternator lurking in the garage ...
>
> If I can make this plan work then I can take a more relaxed approach to
> fixing the original unit.

UPDATE: the plan worked

The cack-handed alternator is now right-way-round and the 110 is back in
business again.

Managed to acquire a set of diddy sockets at Maplin today - so the
rectifier unit is now detatched from the original alternator. Brushes
look in fine fettle - how do I bench check/verify or is it less hassle to
simply go buy a new one?

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

Austin Shackles · Sep 18, 2006

On or around Sun, 17 Sep 2006 21:13:21 +0100, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>UPDATE: the plan worked

>
>The cack-handed alternator is now right-way-round and the 110 is back in
>business again.
>
>Managed to acquire a set of diddy sockets at Maplin today - so the
>rectifier unit is now detatched from the original alternator. Brushes
>look in fine fettle - how do I bench check/verify or is it less hassle to
>simply go buy a new one?

this is the one that had a dim glow on the light when running, isn't it?

I was once told (ISTR by a chap at Lucas) that that was symptomatic of
partial diode pack failure. if so, chances are regulator is OK. The
rectification is done by a bunch of fat diodes, sort of like a bridge
recitifier only diffferent - I think it uses a pair of diodes per field
winding or something. The output, of course, is from the field and not the
rotor - the box with the brushes controls the rotor (exciter) current which
determines the output.

I assume you can test the diodes with a suitable meter. I believe the diode
pack is available as a spare part, but I doubt it's worth the effort. ISTR
having one done (when there was still a Lucas Service place up in Aber, into
which one could walk via the back door, so as to talk with the chap in the
workshop who knew what he was doing) - it involves a fat soldering iron,
along the way somewhere.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

William Tasso · Sep 18, 2006

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:40:05 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Sun, 17 Sep 2006 21:13:21 +0100, "William Tasso"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>> UPDATE: the plan worked

>>
>> The cack-handed alternator is now right-way-round and the 110 is back in
>> business again.
>>
>> Managed to acquire a set of diddy sockets at Maplin today - so the
>> rectifier unit is now detatched from the original alternator. Brushes
>> look in fine fettle - how do I bench check/verify or is it less hassle
>> to
>> simply go buy a new one?
>
> this is the one that had a dim glow on the light when running, isn't it?

yes - although that died completely by the time the charge meter showed
negative

> I was once told (ISTR by a chap at Lucas) that that was symptomatic of
> partial diode pack failure. if so, chances are regulator is OK.

ok - is the diode pack in the same removable unit as the brushes?

> The
> rectification is done by a bunch of fat diodes, sort of like a bridge
> recitifier only diffferent - I think it uses a pair of diodes per field
> winding or something. The output, of course, is from the field and not
> the
> rotor - the box with the brushes controls the rotor (exciter) current
> which
> determines the output.

Ahh - so nothing apart from the brushes in that unit?

pics of the removed bit - this is where I thought I'd find
regulator/rectifier

http://williamtasso.com/components/gallery/?gallery=\land-rover-bits\alternator

> I assume you can test the diodes with a suitable meter.

I could - if I knew where to find them

> I believe the diode
> pack is available as a spare part, but I doubt it's worth the effort.
> ISTR
> having one done (when there was still a Lucas Service place up in Aber,
> into
> which one could walk via the back door, so as to talk with the chap in
> the
> workshop who knew what he was doing) - it involves a fat soldering iron,
> along the way somewhere.

Well - I have a 60W wolf iron from a long while back. Damned n b*ggered
if I want to spend £100 on a 'recon' unit if I can fix it with parts.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

Dougal · Sep 18, 2006

William Tasso wrote:

>> I assume you can test the diodes with a suitable meter.
>
>
> I could - if I knew where to find them

Meter not required. Bulb, a length of wire and battery will suffice.

William Tasso · Sep 18, 2006

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:24:47 +0100, Dougal
<DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

> William Tasso wrote:
>
>>> I assume you can test the diodes with a suitable meter.
>> I could - if I knew where to find them

>
> Meter not required. Bulb, a length of wire and battery will suffice.

heh - I can find the meter (and a selection of bilbs, batteries and wire
bits), it's the test points I haven't located.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

Dougal · Sep 18, 2006

William Tasso wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:24:47 +0100, Dougal
> <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> William Tasso wrote:
>>
>>>> I assume you can test the diodes with a suitable meter.
>>>
>>> I could - if I knew where to find them

>>
>>
>> Meter not required. Bulb, a length of wire and battery will suffice.
>
>
> heh - I can find the meter (and a selection of bilbs, batteries and
> wire bits), it's the test points I haven't located.

This is still the A127/45 isn't it?

Test detail is in the 90/110 manual on the Estonian site:
http://www.landrover.ee/est/files/manuals/cars/defender/Def_90_110_WSM_book5.pdf

Ok, it's for the 65A model but that needn't concern you.

Oily · Sep 18, 2006

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sun, 17 Sep 2006 21:13:21 +0100, "William Tasso"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >UPDATE: the plan worked

> >
> >The cack-handed alternator is now right-way-round and the 110 is back in
> >business again.
> >
> >Managed to acquire a set of diddy sockets at Maplin today - so the
> >rectifier unit is now detatched from the original alternator. Brushes
> >look in fine fettle - how do I bench check/verify or is it less hassle to
> >simply go buy a new one?
>
> this is the one that had a dim glow on the light when running, isn't it?
>
> I was once told (ISTR by a chap at Lucas) that that was symptomatic of
> partial diode pack failure. if so, chances are regulator is OK. The
> rectification is done by a bunch of fat diodes, sort of like a bridge
> recitifier only diffferent - I think it uses a pair of diodes per field
> winding or something. The output, of course, is from the field and not
the
> rotor

The rotor is the field (well,the winding on it) and the output is from the
stator windings.

Martin

- the box with the brushes controls the rotor (exciter) current which
> determines the output.
>
> I assume you can test the diodes with a suitable meter. I believe the
diode
> pack is available as a spare part, but I doubt it's worth the effort.
ISTR
> having one done (when there was still a Lucas Service place up in Aber,
into
> which one could walk via the back door, so as to talk with the chap in the
> workshop who knew what he was doing) - it involves a fat soldering iron,
> along the way somewhere.
>
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
> ------------------------------------------------\
> >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
> a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

William Tasso · Sep 18, 2006

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:13:55 +0100, Dougal
<DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

> William Tasso wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:24:47 +0100, Dougal
>> <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> William Tasso wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I assume you can test the diodes with a suitable meter.
>>>>
>>>> I could - if I knew where to find them

>>>
>>> Meter not required. Bulb, a length of wire and battery will suffice.
>> heh - I can find the meter (and a selection of bilbs, batteries and
>> wire bits), it's the test points I haven't located.
>
> This is still the A127/45 isn't it?

yessir - this is the unit that is now removed from the motor.

> Test detail is in the 90/110 manual on the Estonian site:
> http://www.landrover.ee/est/files/manuals/cars/defender/Def_90_110_WSM_book5.pdf

ugh - caught out by rtfm. oh the shame of it all.

> Ok, it's for the 65A model but that needn't concern you.

brilliant - thanks for the heads-up.
--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

Austin Shackles · Sep 19, 2006

On or around Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:57:39 +0100, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>pics of the removed bit - this is where I thought I'd find
>regulator/rectifier

that's yer regulator. senses voltage and supplies more or less rotor
current to make the thing generate. The rotor current gets in vis the slip
rings on the end of the rotor and the brushes on the unit.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

Austin Shackles · Sep 19, 2006

On or around Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:56:15 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I was once told (ISTR by a chap at Lucas) that that was symptomatic of
>> partial diode pack failure. if so, chances are regulator is OK. The
>> rectification is done by a bunch of fat diodes, sort of like a bridge
>> recitifier only diffferent - I think it uses a pair of diodes per field
>> winding or something. The output, of course, is from the field and not
>the
>> rotor
>
>The rotor is the field (well,the winding on it) and the output is from the
>stator windings.

bugger. I thought that read wrong. yes, stator of course, you're quite
right. 's the opposite of a dynamo.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

The almost imperceptible glow ....

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