TD5 tuning?

I recently purchased a 2002 td5 Defender 90 with 27,000 on the clock.
So far as I can see, it has been serviced by the local garage!

Anyway, with my abnormally suspicious and cynical nature, I have been
looking out for problems.

So far, I have experienced the following:

Occasionally (far more often than with my 300Tdi), it takes two turns
of the key to start. Is this symptomatic of something I should know
about? The 300 is an impeccible starter.

When pulling away, it accelerates normally, then after a few seconds
acceleration increases so I have to throttle back. Plotted as a graph,
this would plot as a steady slope, then a sudden steepening of the
curve. Is this normal?

I have also had the engine stall when pulling away with a loaded
trailer (say 1 tonne). I don't think the 300 did that.

Considering this model is now four years old and I read of "new
chips", should I consider re-chipping? Or re-tuning? (I'm a
technophobe).

It is quite possible I am being neurotic and just need to get used to
a new vehicle, but I would appreciate the usual expert advice from
this list. I have done a search and found reference to "jerky
acceleration" but not much else. Maybe I'm just spoilt from having the
300 which is a great engine!<g>

Derry

On or around Sun, 12 Nov 2006 09:08:56 +0000, Derry
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I have also had the engine stall when pulling away with a loaded
>trailer (say 1 tonne). I don't think the 300 did that.

that was a known trait on earlier TD5s especially.

In general, the engine needs more revs than a TDi. It also "sounds" faster
so that the same engine note represents 20% fewer revs, which compounds the
problem - keep an eye to the rev counter if you have one. If not, one can
be fitted.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849

"Derry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I recently purchased a 2002 td5 Defender 90 with 27,000 on the clock.
> So far as I can see, it has been serviced by the local garage!
>
> Occasionally (far more often than with my 300Tdi), it takes two turns
> of the key to start. Is this symptomatic of something I should know
> about? The 300 is an impeccible starter.

I've got a 2003MY D90 and it starts perfectly, even when it's been standing
for a week or two (but so did my old 300tdi).

>
> I have also had the engine stall when pulling away with a loaded
> trailer (say 1 tonne). I don't think the 300 did that.
>

I think they changed the Engine Management somewhere around 2002 / 2003. If
you let the "computer" sort it out and don't touch the throttle, mine will
pull away uphill with 1000 litres of water and some logs in the trailer
(about 1.5 tons + the trailer). I had heard about your problem and wasn't
looking forward to it, but it hasn't happened so I assume that I've got the
later Engine Management. Perhaps you can get the early ones reprogrammed ??

Joskin

Austin Shackles wrote:
> In general, the engine needs more revs than a TDi. It also "sounds" faster
> so that the same engine note represents 20% fewer revs,

How does that work then ?

Steve

On 2006-11-12, steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> How does that work then ?

5 cylinders, so for every rotation of the crank, you get more "bangs"
from cylinders firing as you've got an extra one.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 09:08:56 +0000, Derry wrote:

> Occasionally (far more often than with my 300Tdi), it takes two turns
> of the key to start. Is this symptomatic of something I should know
> about? The 300 is an impeccible starter.

From stone cold? How long do you hold the first turn? Do you wait for the
glow plug light to go out? My DII TD5 starts very well, though from cold
I wait for the glow plug.

> When pulling away, it accelerates normally, then after a few seconds
> acceleration increases so I have to throttle back. Plotted as a graph,
> this would plot as a steady slope, then a sudden steepening of the
> curve. Is this normal?

I can feel the turbo on mine kicking in, really start to feel it at just
over 1900rpm. Until the turbo comes in preformance can be quite sluggish,
particulary if you are in too high a gear.

> I have also had the engine stall when pulling away with a loaded
> trailer (say 1 tonne). I don't think the 300 did that.

This might be the slight delay between pressing the go pedal and the
engine actually responding. This delay is down to the "fly by wire"
nature of the TD5, one has to remember to wake the engine up from idle if
you need lots of power/torque when you let the clutch up. So pulling into
a small gap in fast traffic or a standing start with a heavy load can be
exciting (or not!).

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:54:37 -0000, Joskin <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...
> mine will
> pull away uphill with 1000 litres of water and some logs in the trailer

takes all sorts I know, but that seems an odd way to make paper

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

"William Tasso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:54:37 -0000, Joskin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ...
>> mine will
>> pull away uphill with 1000 litres of water and some logs in the trailer
>
> takes all sorts I know, but that seems an odd way to make paper
>
> --
> William Tasso
>
> Land Rover - 110 V8
> Discovery - V8

That wasn't quite the idea
I was hauling water because our well had run dry in the summer, and it
seemed a waste not to collect some logs for winter while the tank was
filling. Trailer seem to go better when they're over loaded, anyway

Joskin

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:16:32 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It also "sounds" faster
>so that the same engine note represents 20% fewer revs,

Ah, that's the other difference I noted. If it was the 300Tdi, I'd be
poking around under the bonnet trying to adjust the tick over to a bit
slower. But I suppose it is normal.

As for starting, the 300 starts first turn without any waiting, summer
or winter. I'd expected that from the TD5 and, out of habit, haven't
been waiting for any lights to go out.

I've read about swapping chips. Is it something to consider? This is a
52 model.

Derry

I
>I have also had the engine stall when pulling away with a loaded
>trailer (say 1 tonne). I don't think the 300 did that.


The TD5 has a very effective anti stall facility. But you override this
when you touch the throttle pedal.

Try pulling away just by releasing the clutch and the then applying
throttle once you are moving. It is quite hard to get used to not
touching the throttle.

It does have it's limitations When my trailer is fully loaded (3.5 t) I
use low ratio to pull away on a hill as I refuse to slip the clutch.

The anti stall software really comes into its own offroad I have
recently completed a Landrover driver training day and techniques
demonstrated take advantage of this to give much more of an advantage
over Tdi engined vehicles .

--
Marc Draper

On or around Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:58:46 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On 2006-11-12, steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> How does that work then ?
>
>5 cylinders, so for every rotation of the crank, you get more "bangs"
>from cylinders firing as you've got an extra one.

prezackly. most obvious with a V8, compared with a 4 cylinder - if you've
only ever had 4-cylinder ones, then the V8 intially sounds like it's revving
its nuts off at about 200 rpm.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"You praise the firm restraint with which they write -_
I'm with you there, of course: They use the snaffle and the bit
alright, but where's the bloody horse? - Roy Campbell (1902-1957)

On or around Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:20:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>This might be the slight delay between pressing the go pedal and the
>engine actually responding. This delay is down to the "fly by wire"
>nature of the TD5, one has to remember to wake the engine up from idle if
>you need lots of power/torque when you let the clutch up. So pulling into
>a small gap in fast traffic or a standing start with a heavy load can be
>exciting (or not!).

fly-by-wire tranny does that too. The delay is very slight, probably about
half a second, but it can catch you out.

You can also do what someone else said, leave your boot steady and let the
engine management sort it out - slow on the clutch to give it time to react.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"You praise the firm restraint with which they write -_
I'm with you there, of course: They use the snaffle and the bit
alright, but where's the bloody horse? - Roy Campbell (1902-1957)

TD5 responds very well to tuning, its a great engine. Mine has 150,000 on the clock and it has just had a stage 1 tune - TD5 Alive did it - its a 1999 so they removed the old chip, burnt a new map onto a new chip and soldered it back inth the ECU. It pulls like a train now - I used to have a 300Tdi but would never go back now. Oh it also doews more MPG now!

The stage 1 tune cost £500 - worth every penny I say - hmm maybe a stage 2 next!