Heavy black smoke and very poor fuel economy

Morning all,

I have a new to me 2004 Discovery TD5 manual,
It's had a stage 1 remap and had the cat and EGR valve removed.

My question/issue is when under any any acceleration it kicks out loads of black smoke and under heavy acceleration i you cant see behind as there's so much.
No lack of power, to be honest it goes like stink but fuel economy even when keeping the revs low is terrible, i have worked it out to be 18 mpg where as my last TD5 disco did between 28 to 30 mpg.
The guff on the remap site says you get better performance and better mpg if driven normally.

It came with the stated mods when i bought it.

Any help regarding the 2 issues pleas as i can't afford to run this vehicle with such poor MPG and feel embarrassed when driving due to everyone being in a cloud of black smoke behind me.

Many thanks in advance

Andy from Hull

Bloo disco 2 said:

under any any acceleration it kicks out loads of black smoke

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Hi, seems that your engine is seriously overfuelled which comes with very high EGT and that's a killer on a long run so fix it ASAP... the best would be to plug in a nanocom or similar for live data but if you dont have access to it first of all unplug the MAF and test drive it so, if it's OK that way replace the sensor...if no change check the turbo/intercooler hoses to not have a leak and clean the MAP sensor... that's about all you can do without plugging in a diagnostic tool cos the MAP or AAP sensors which can cause such symptom can be ruled out only with live readings

Bloo disco 2 said:

The guff on the remap site says you get better performance and better mpg if driven normally.

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which remap site ?

Many thanks for your reply sierrafery,
I will unplug the MAF sensor and run it on my way home and see if it's any better.
If not i will check the hoses for splits or delamination.
I believe it's Empire tuning.

Andy

Massively over fuelled probably due to a ****e remap by someone who has no idea how to remap a car properly. You can almost guarantee it was a simple laptop at side of the road remap and not put on a dyno to actually check its performance and fueling once done.
Like all of the remap companies that visit you, pay peanuts get monkeys.
Needs a decent company who can dyno the car once remapped.

If it's not better with MAF unplugged, connect it back and unplug the airbox sensor for test then connect this back and unplug the MAP ... with one of these unplugged it shoud have less power and less smoke as well unless there's a boost leak somewhere but as i said to rule out things completely a diagnostic tool is needed

swatts70 said:

probably due to a ****e remap by someone who has no idea how to remap a car properly.

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As far as i am aware Empire tuning is a reputable company?

Siarrafery, i will try all your suggestions and see if any of them make a difference, thanks for your constructive suggestions.

Andy

I have had a bit of a look on the net and diregarding their own site they do actually seem to be a decent company. That is if they were the actual tuners. Any paperwork to prove it? You could ring them and ask them if they actually did work on your car. the seller could just have been snopwing you, he could have said "Alive tuning" and you would have been none the wiser, without paperwork, although even that can be fiddled.

So I'd follow all @sierrafery 's advice.

Stanleysteamer said:

I have had a bit of a look on the net and diregarding their own site they do actually seem to be a decent company. That is if they were the actual tuners. Any paperwork to prove it? You could ring them and ask them if they actually did work on your car. the seller could just have been snopwing you, he could have said "Alive tuning" and you would have been none the wiser, without paperwork, although even that can be fiddled.

So I'd follow all @sierrafery 's advice.

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I do have paperwork to prove it was them, and there was a sticker form them on the car too which i removed.
I will follow Sierrafery's suggestions and if unsuccessful will contact Empire tuning.

Thanks for the reply Stanleysteame, i've been looking on the net myself after being given Sierrafery's advice and the symptoms do point to either the MAF or/and the MAP sensor so fingers very crossed.

If any of these sort my problem i will post and say so as i find many don't so no one is the wiser.

Many thanks

Andy Hull

Stanleysteamer said:

I have had a bit of a look on the net and diregarding their own site they do actually seem to be a decent company.

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They are but they'll still provide an "aggresive smoke" map if a customer asks.

Definitely check what fery suggests first but there is a chance a previous owner asked for it.

Bloo disco 2 said:

I do have paperwork to prove it was them, and there was a sticker form them on the car too which i removed.
I will follow Sierrafery's suggestions and if unsuccessful will contact Empire tuning.

Thanks for the reply Stanleysteame, i've been looking on the net myself after being given Sierrafery's advice and the symptoms do point to either the MAF or/and the MAP sensor so fingers very crossed.

If any of these sort my problem i will post and say so as i find many don't so no one is the wiser.

Many thanks

Andy Hull

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You need to use proper sensor cleaner not just any other cleaner which will leave a coat of stuff on that you don't want. This may well not cure your MAP sensor, it didn't work for mine. But I have a Foxwell which, with @sierrafery 's help I was able to use to record live data which showed I had to change the MAP/Iat. Since then no problems.
But my problem was different to yours, it involved very low response to throttle input at low revs. Dangerously so. You seem not to be suffering with that
But your engine will be a 15p or a 16p I think, mine is a 10p so I can more or less throw the MAF away and it makes little difference, where as you need the MAF to get things running properly.

(My bro lives off Anlaby Road and we were born on Vicky Ave, though I haven't lived in 'ull since 1963!)
Best of luck mate.!

jamesDiscoTD5 said:

They are but they'll still provide an "aggresive smoke" map if a customer asks.

Definitely check what fery suggests first but there is a chance a previous owner asked for it.

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So not reallty a "Stage 1" then?!

But good advice, if he rings them as he says he might, then they might be able to tell him. Who knows, they might retune it for not much dosh.

Stanleysteamer said:

(My bro lives off Anlaby Road and we were born on Vicky Ave, though I haven't lived in 'ull since 1963!)
Best of luck mate.!

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I was born Anlaby road and grew up Endike lane/Calvert lane, im in Sutton now.

It is a 15p engine as it says on the V5

I was going to use isopropanol alchohol or brake cleaner to clean them both.
Hope these are ok yo use?

Andy

Bloo disco 2 said:

I was born Anlaby road and grew up Endike lane/Calvert lane, im in Sutton now.

It is a 15p engine as it says on the V5

I was going to use isopropanol alchohol or brake cleaner to clean them both.
Hope these are ok yo use?

Andy

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Anlaby road? small world. He's on Delapole ave.
Sutton? Better then!
Isopropanol will be better as that will leave less deposit, brake cleaner is too agresssive, but sensor cleaner isn't hard to get hold of.
Don't forget to not poke anything at all down the tiny little hole in the Map/iat, or use a brush or anything on the MAF, they are very sensitive.
Stan.

Stanleysteamer said:

....they might retune it for not much dosh.

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For that the owner must be 100% certain that everything is faultless on the engine... which(i hate to repeat myself) would be almost impossible without a proper diagnostic session unless there is something obvious like a visible boost leak or MAF if i runs well with it disconnected

i've seen a quite similar case when the cause was that the PO sold the vehicle with black top injectors fitted to a tuned 15P engine without saying anything and even though everything else was perfect it smoked bad cos those injectors were overfuelled as the management was set for green top injectors which are working at higher pressure by default. Fortunately there was a bit of oil in the red plug so this was discovered when the owner wanted to replace the injector loom

BTW... @Bloo disco 2, check the ECU red plug for oil as well maybe you have to remove the cover too albeit the injector loom won't cause such symptom but it's something to be fixed

We are both singing from the same hymn sheet:

sierrafery said:

the best would be to plug in a nanocom or similar for live data but

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sierrafery said:

but as i said to rule out things completely a diagnostic tool is needed

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Stanleysteamer said:

But I have a Foxwell which, with @sierrafery 's help I was able to use to record live data which showed I had to change the MAP/Iat.

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sierrafery said:

which(i hate to repeat myself) would be almost impossible without a proper diagnostic session

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I expect he'll get it now.
Hopefully he'll be able to find a member nearby with a Nanocom a Foxwell or similar so he can get live data.
But he needs to do it, as you say, before getting back to the tuner as otherwise he could be just throwing good money after bad. If I wasn't a long way away I'd pop over with my Foxwell!

I get it guys

Just need to try what's been advised and if that doesn't sort it i may have to do a bit of begging on here to see whose local to me with a nonocom

Andy

Hi guys, wasn't going to post until Monday to be sure but I am sure so will post.
I disconnected the Maf meter and have done a load of running about.
So, there's literally no smoke now unless I boot it and then you do get some black smoke but no where as much as before.
It's not as quick as it was but still drive nicely.
Fuel consumption has gone up and I mean up not registered on the guage and as said have done a load of town running about so I think the MAF sensor is faulty.

May I say a huge thank you to you guys for the amazing advice you have given me.

Many thanks

Andy

I'm glad it was so simple as that. Bite the bullet and buy a genuine LR MAF then the vehicle will behave the best, if it seems too expensive to you get a Siemens/VDO one not other aftermarket cos for the 15P is way too important, better without it than with cheap ones... now it's on a default not 100% and the fuelling is calculated based on MAP sensor so clean it and it might run even better

Bloo disco 2 said:

Hi guys, wasn't going to post until Monday to be sure but I am sure so will post.
I disconnected the Maf meter and have done a load of running about.
So, there's literally no smoke now unless I boot it and then you do get some black smoke but no where as much as before.
It's not as quick as it was but still drive nicely.
Fuel consumption has gone up and I mean up not registered on the guage and as said have done a load of town running about so I think the MAF sensor is faulty.

May I say a huge thank you to you guys for the amazing advice you have given me.

Many thanks

Andy

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So glad you found the fault and it is a relatively easy and cheap fix.
Have fun with it!

Buy genuine