TD5 defender abs wiring, lets see who can answer this!

Hi looking for some help with some wiring issues i'm having with an project defender build with ABS.

Ok, i'm building a fast road defender project, as i've always wanted a soft top sports car, from when i was 17 and times running out! BUT i've got 4 kids, so i decided a soft top 6 seater 90 landy seems pretty perfect and i can build myself and have a V8.

Spec is Range Rover 4.2 V8 (Ex rangie LSE) sprintex super charger, LSE auto box, borge warner transpere (already have similar kit on 3.5 defender, great set up, love the power a super charger, gives across the power curve) Any way, this new build is chassis up, and as I wont be doing many miles, i'll have to try and forget the money i'll be pouring into the fuel tank!

I have over the last year collected together parts needed, which include 2005 ish defender ABS axels, 2006 bulk head, with ABS pump and loom etc from a crashed SX. I have decided to try! and fit ABS as its going to be pretty quick and i want to stop quick as well, especially as i'll have the whole family on board! I have all the ABS hardware already so i might as well give it a go. My friends think i'm mad, but it seems to me the ABS loom \ system is pretty self contained, with its own ecu.

My main question is this, i will be using the range rover 4.2 engine loom and ecu, which apart from feul pump etc is sorted. I am using a right hand drive, up to 2006, NONE ecu main vehical loom, as used on some export TD5's, as i dont want the complications intergrating a TD5 ecu loom as well.I have stripped out the ABS part of the old ecu english TD5 loom, and it apears to be self contained apart from 3 wires that connect to the engine ecu, yellow\pink, grey\purple, black yellow.

Does anybody know what these are for and weather they are signals from the ABS ecu to engine ecu (in which case i can ignore) Or signals from engine ecu to ABS ecu, in which case i may need more work!

I have been told that if the ABS fails for some reason, the system is designed for safty, to revert to the ordinary none ABS breaking system, can anyone confirm that, as i was intending to fit a manual on\off switch on the main ABS relay switch wire so i could turn it off if i wanted, say whilst offroading, but i have yet to find anybody who has either had a ABS system fail, and could say weather or not they still had ordinary braking or anyone who has put a manual switch in?

Also whats the difference in the hardware between an ABS system and a ABS \ traction control system, is it just a different ecu and dash light, or different wiring loom?

I know this sounds pretty full on, but i've got pretty much everything worked out on the wiring front, V8 loom to vehical loom, auto box loom, sprinex charger extra feuing ecu to V8 loom, mostly just coping my other rebuild i did on my other 90 about 10 years ago.

But on that one i tried putting a TD5 ecu loom in, none ABS and had no end of problems, as the ECU did'nt like not having the the feeds from the correct sencors from the TD5 diesel engine, electronic excellerator pedel, etc etc etc and did'nt want to play! I got there in the end, but i would never want to do that again! But i'm hoping that as i'm using a none ecu loom and the ABS system has its own ecu, i should be ok \ nearly there???

Its just these last 3 ABS wires and What impact they have on the functioning of the ABS?

Anybody know the answers or tried this before? Really hoping someone has tried this and it works!!

thanks

They may be the interface wires between the ECU and the ABS controller.
The TD5 ECU uses the ABS system for a form of traction control.

wub868 said:

My main question is this, i will be using the range rover 4.2 engine loom and ecu, which apart from feul pump etc is sorted. I am using a right hand drive, up to 2006, NONE ecu main vehical loom, as used on some export TD5's, as i dont want the complications intergrating a TD5 ecu loom as well.I have stripped out the ABS part of the old ecu english TD5 loom, and it apears to be self contained apart from 3 wires that connect to the engine ecu, yellow\pink, grey\purple, black yellow.

I have been told that if the ABS fails for some reason, the system is designed for safty, to revert to the ordinary none ABS breaking system, can anyone confirm that...

Click to expand...

Sounds good, I would be interested to hear how you get on because if you can get it to run more or less stand alone then I would do the axle swap and fit it to mine.

If ABS fails it will indeed work as ordinary braking, at the end of the day there is still fluid pushed out to brake calipers, ABS working or not.

Shifty1962 said:

They may be the interface wires between the ECU and the ABS controller.
The TD5 ECU uses the ABS system for a form of traction control.

Click to expand...

As shifty says, and after some more thinking, I am sure the vehicles speed is taken from the ABS sensors on the TD5 - so probably road speed signal to ECU.

youi need to down load disco 2 workshop manual it is on here somewhere ,it has list of slabbs ecu connectors ,there is road speed output and engine speed input ,engine data input amongst others

Sorry to be a party pooper but a 6 seat 90 is going to have side facing seats and you have 4 kids and want to put a supercharged 4.2 V8 in it as a "fast road defender "


your ins premium should be quite interesting as well !!

The yellow pink (YK) is a feed from speedo to ecu on a 300tdi disco , rover wire colours usually follow same usage on different vehicles The YK also runs from eng ecu toABS ECU . The grey purple in a td5 loom goes to pin 32 on a TD5 engine ecu . It also goes between the abs ecu and the modulator
What you need to do is research what pin uses what colour on the different ecu you are using HTSH

Ok getting somewhere now. I think the yellow \ pink is as you said Tacr2man, speed signal from the speedo to the engine ecu and ABS ecu, so i am going to splice into the yellow \ pink from the speedo connection block.

This just leaves the grey\purple. I have searched the internet again and can not for the life of me find out what that wire does. Anybody know or have diagram?

I have a print out of the Abs wiring and can see the wire and that it goes to engine ecu, but i dont have a list to tell me what each terminal is.

I dont think the ecu gets its speed from the ABS sencors as my friend has same year TD5 loomed defender, without ABS, so its getting speed from speed tranducer on the transpere box i think.

Oh and thanks so far.

Correct. Speed is from xfer box.

Further info re BY , i think you wont need to connect as I think its used in the cruise control disable circuit, also in start inhibit circuit , I did not use when I fitted the 300tdi auto into my 90 . Still looking at the SP usage !

Hello,

This may be an old topic, not sure if anyone is still interested.

I am also looking at putting ABS onto a 90 (twin supercharged [sprintex] 5.0).

If you are interested, on the TD5 from my research the major "advancement" was the provision of anti-stall. The anti-stall function works in tandem with the traction control (and fuel enrichment via drive by wire) to maintain the engine RPM, I believe that this functionally is provided by the ECU <--> Wabco ABS Controller.

I'm not sure what protocol Landrover use, I don't think it is CANBUS, but whatever it is it is all fairly pointless because of the way that CANBUS works (and others) work is that they send messages to other controllers or are requested specific information from controllers that comes out of (or goes into) a specific table of information, unless you obtain the information from landrover, I would say that you have little way of passing the right information from the right controller into the correct address.

A good document on Wabco ABS is on the following link, (the savvy will note that a detailed diagram of the modulator includes the works "DEFENDER". http://inform.wabco-auto.com/intl/pdf/815/000/430/815_430.pdf

Personal note: you may be able to get the Defender 90 ABS ECU to work without the data lines being connected to the engine ECU. "May" is the operative note, because the WABCO H-ABS controller could included a confirmation message from the ECU, which if not responded to will bring up one of the ABS fault lights. Not tried it, not that far along in my build, not going to waste my time / cash on a Defender ABS controller at the moment.

Please note, don't fit a ABS Controller from another Landrover, range rover, discovery, freelander or something else, because they are set up for the braking dynamics of the vehicle which does change between wheelbase lengths and the landrover range, engine capacity, wheel size, rotor size, calipers, pad material, etc, no matter how temping it is to buy a "cheaper" ABS controller. You also won't have a leg to stand on should you have a serious accident and the vehicle is inspected in detail, regardless of your insurance declaration or not.

I am not an expert in anything, but I can go into more detail if you wish on the braking dynamics from research. [Do anything and everything at your own risk, please remember the person who went to jail following modifications that were deemed to have contributed to the death of a number of children when his landrover ended up in a river and they looked at the vehicle in detail] Four children killed in father's modified Land Rover, court told | UK news | The Guardian

There is also a "custom" ABS system that in theory you could fit to any vehicle from Bosch Motorsport (price about 6K Euro + from memory), your insurance company may accept this brake modification, given it is purpose designed, and is able to be customised, albeit have a serious accident and I think that they will hang you out to dry. Bosch Motorsport - ABS M4 Kit

I am looking at building an ABS controller, but am a long way off from actually implementing it on a vehicle and it will require a lot of testing before hand using CANBUS to interlink an ECU with COP ignition, sequential injection (LPG), air suspension, a TFT dash and possibly the rest of the lighting functions via CANBUS to minimise wiring, but this may all end in being a pipe dream, we see how far we get past the ECU and air suspension controller.... The infomation on how things work is interesting and considering how it could be put into action, not that I am putting it into action, before someone goes off at a tangent about "building an ABS controller", the programming behind them is very interesting as are the algorithms.


On a separate subject, I would not run a single sprintex supercharger off a 4.2 litre engine, they were not really designed for anything over 3.9 litre at modest boost (6lb) and reasonable RPM (4500-5000rpm). Unless you didn't know, the RPM of a supercharged engine is governed by the rated speed of the supercharger and not the hydraulic lifters or mechanical engine components. Check you gearing ratio, a nice simple spreadsheet (not accurate though!!!!) was actually produced by Sprintex a few years ago, they still list it on their website, but without the common S102 or older superchargers. A copy is on the following link: www.xjr6.com/Blower_Calculator.xls


Rob

Found this old topic but I'm currently doing more or less the same and got the same problem: grey-purple wire. Were i have to connect this wire to?
Dont have the td5 defender ecu, we have a stand alone rover V8 motormanagement.

Thanks for the information!