td5 brake problems

hi ive had 2 defender td5 one 2000 reg one 2003 reg first having abs second having no abs the brakes on the 2003 no abs are so bad id be better off putting my feet through the floor and doing the flintstones i have to push so hard on the brake pedal and then the pedal goes rock hard and they just dont stop you no matter how hard you push down. deff something wrong anybody know

servo? master cyl?

never had brakes go on a vehicle b4 so dont know what pedal goes like when servo or master go

I might be wrong but if the pedal goes hard & stays hard, it could be a servo issue.
With the engine off, pump the pedal til it goes hard-keep your foot on it while its hard & start the engine-if it goes soft its fine, if not it needs looking at.
Master cyl would normally cause a soft pedal unless anyone wants to correct me..

ok thanks will give that a try in the morning thanks

pumped the pedal until it was hard with engine off and then started vehicle pedal stayed hard so that would be servo possibly?

jasper td5 said:

pumped the pedal until it was hard with engine off and then started vehicle pedal stayed hard so that would be servo possibly?

Click to expand...

Yes mate, do a search on here for servo & it should bring something up i would have thought

What about pipe work between servo and vacuum pump, or the pump itself? Is it connected even?

jasper td5 said:

pumped the pedal until it was hard with engine off and then started vehicle pedal stayed hard so that would be servo possibly?

Click to expand...

Yes this definitely points to the brake servo not operating.
Could be the vacuum pump, vacuum piping, or the servo itself.
Run the engine and then pull the vacuum pipe from the servo, its only held in by a rubber grommet. If you hear a loud hiss then the vacuum pump is working and the servo is kaput.
No hiss maybe down to piping or pump but could also be a torn servo diaphragm.
I dont think the servo diaphragm is replaceable but I know on some vehicles they are so I may be wrong.
Try holding your finger over the vacuum pipe while it is pulled out from the servo. Can you feel any suck? It should be quite a strong suck so if it wont hold a sheet of paper to the pipe then it could be a leak in the pipe or the pump itself. Dont put the pipe in a glass of water to see if its working.
If the brakes are going hard as you say then there's nowt wrong with them.

ok all good ideas but how good are the brake pads . if there low the pistions in the calipers will be fully extended and also cause a hard pedal

defcrazy said:

ok all good ideas but how good are the brake pads . if there low the pistions in the calipers will be fully extended and also cause a hard pedal

Click to expand...

only if theyre seized surely

jasper td5 said:

never had brakes go on a vehicle b4 so dont know what pedal goes like when servo or master go

Click to expand...

If you have old DOT3/DOT4 brake fluid that has absorbed water and you are in stop-start slow speed congestion the brakes will heat up and the pedal will go spongy. The reason for this is steam inside the brake cylinders. I had this happen on a Volvo 145 that was grinding its way to Gatwick. Apparently Guildford was all dug up for sewer works and the congestion spread out about thirty miles. When one is being overtaken by an old lady with a Zimmer frame it really is the pits! (I jest not - it actually happened and of course I missed my plane) I brought back a can of brake fluid from the USA "just in case" but on my return the brake pedal was OK! Brakes can do peculiar things. Allegedly the new synthetic brake fluid doesn't absorb water and doesn't boil but take this promise with a large grain of salt.

Another brake fault occurred on my blue Rover 825SD (the one with the beast of an engine - no need to waste money buying an Audi TT !) After flying the car effortlessly up a hill the brakes failed on the other side! What had happened was that the previous owners dopey garage had fitted the vacuum hose in the wrong place next to the exhaust pipe and thrashing up the hill had melted the hose. With no servo boost the brake pedal was as hard as rock - very nasty.

Amazingly a lot of automatic cars can suffer brake failure just by being low on fuel. This is extremely nasty and it occurs because the accountants have designed-out the second hydraulic pump on the gearbox output shaft. (Vehicles using the venerable Borg-Warner 35 transmission could be bump started or tow started - modern stuff cannot be) Most car manufacturers arrange for the fuel to be picked up from the rear of the tank for obvious reasons but there is a snag with this! Scenario is a large non-Rover car with only about a gallon of fuel remaining. A long steep twisty downgrade is encountered. Fuel runs to the FRONT of the tank and the engine stops and WILL NOT RESTART. Power assistance to the steering ceases and brute force is needed to steer. The first twisty bend is OK as is the second but after that all the vacuum is gone! One is now riding an out of control monster weighing nearly two tons and there is a "Halt At Major Road Ahead" at the bottom of the hill! By pressing the brake pedal for all it was worth and pulling hard on the steering wheel plus yanking on the handbrake the car was slowed down in the nick of time (good job I wasn't a 9 stone weakling). Once on the flat everything worked OK again but I retired the old gas-guzzler shortly afterwards as IMHO it was a death trap. Not bad maintenance either - it was a death trap the day it left the factory! I managed to hang on to my No Claims Bonus but manual gearboxes are much safer than these new-fangled automatics.

I've also got a Range Rover Classic which will just about do a hand-stand. With this vehicle the dopey MOT tester tested it as if it was a Defender!!!! We had a LOT of disagreements about the brakes however I was delighted to hear that the bloke had been sacked a few weeks later. (log book says "Range Rover Vogue EFi, fuel Heavy Oil, engine capacity 2394cc" so the idiot tested it as if it was a petrol engined vehicle) As to testing the brakes on a TWO WHEEL brake tester I nearly planted the bloke. You just can't get the right staff!

i'm having a similar issue
i've just recently completed bit of a overhaul new master cylinder,new hoses,new pistons,new pads.
servos seems to be fine and the pedal is still spongey. dont really know what to do !! any help ??

HARRYK9988 said:

i'm having a similar issue
i've just recently completed bit of a overhaul new master cylinder,new hoses,new pistons,new pads.
servos seems to be fine and the pedal is still spongey. dont really know what to do !! any help ??

Click to expand...

Welcome to lz, Harry!

Well done for searching, but this is a six year old thread, it is possible none of em are online at the moment!

If you have tested the servo, and the master cylinder pushrod is properly adjusted, I would guess you have air in the system.

HARRYK9988 said:

i'm having a similar issue
i've just recently completed bit of a overhaul new master cylinder,new hoses,new pistons,new pads.
servos seems to be fine and the pedal is still spongey. dont really know what to do !! any help ??

Click to expand...

Spongy, are you sure you bled the system fully? On a full rebuild it can take a few goes.

I would just go round all the bleed nipples and let fluid run from them, start at the back, get it running clear, then do the front. Don't even touch the pedal.

discomania said:

I would just go round all the bleed nipples and let fluid run from them, start at the back, get it running clear, then do the front. Don't even touch the pedal.

Click to expand...

+1 to all that.

A lot of air can hide in Land Rover braking systems. Sometimes if you let it settle overnight and bleed it a couple of times the following day it can make a difference. I've found that my system is a lot easier to bleed now I've replaced most of the metal pipes. The old factory right angle bends must have had something to do with it. Now it has larger radius curves and straighter pipe runs it bleeds much more readily.