TD5 Auto Box - no power on morning start

1. Just had a full service on my 2003 TD5 (120k) with new filter and oil change on auto box. When starting in the morning and a quick shift in to reverse (for getting out of my driveway ) there is no feel of any transmission until at least five seconds after the shift. No slight kick as you would expect and a very slow build up of pressure for take off. So eventually it starts to role and then I shift to Drive for forwards journey. Engine struggles and nearly stalls with box giving drive but with a struggle. Then takes off after a second or two and all is well. Further starts during the day are fine - its just the overnight stop that seems to cause the problem.

2. Returned to my local friendly garage ( no landrover franchise ) and guessed shortage of oil. Checked with this forum for proper filling and charging technique with different gear shifts now being used instead of straight fill. Took about one more litre and hoped this would resolve problem. But no change. Still waiting for system to charge before being able to drive.

3. So gentlemen and possibly ladies I have a Disco which did not exhibit this problem before service.... so what is going wrong please. Garage very keen to understand this themselves and quite happy to help out but no idea what has happened.

Obliged for suggestions please..........

Perhaps too simple, did the garage use the correct grade oil for the gearbox?

I would also replace the filter again in case of a faulty unit.

Put it back to the garage, if they are "friendly" they will want to ensure you are happy.

Did they use Dexron III? How much did they put in - 4.5 to 5ltrs would be the norm.

If they didn't know the correct procedure for refilling on the first attempt, I would be cautious about their knowledge base.

Anyone who works on cars knows that you have to have the engine running and cycle through the gearbox, to gauge the oil level correctly.


This is an excellent example of why more and more people are learning to do repairs and servicing themselves at home - then at least you know exactly what has been done, for better and for worse.

Many thanks for trying and indeed simplest are often the answer but regret not in this case. Dexon 3 confirmed.

Also idea of replacing filter unlikely to be cause as vehicle is fine during the day. Its just that things seem to 'drain down ' overnight with oil in the wrong place for normal start and drive.

Continued help appreciated please.

criky18 said:

Many thanks for trying and indeed simplest are often the answer but regret not in this case. Dexon 3 confirmed.

Also idea of replacing filter unlikely to be cause as vehicle is fine during the day. Its just that things seem to 'drain down ' overnight with oil in the wrong place for normal start and drive.

Continued help appreciated please.

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Did they top-up the gearbox the second time (after cycleing through the gearbox positions) with the engine running?

Thankyou but I witnessed second top up with engine running, so not this unfortunately.

criky18 said:

Thankyou but I witnessed second top up with engine running, so not this unfortunately.

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Ok well we can forget about that one then. I wonder if anything electrcial was disturbed in the process of the oil and filter change. For instance, the connector on the "XYZ" selector switch, this has a plug and socket arrangement.

It sounds to me, having re-read your description, like there is an issue of electronic communication between the gearbox and the engine. Have you checked the red plug on the engine ECU for oil contamination? I know it probably sounds un-related, but I believe the engine and gearbox "talk" to each other before firing up and if there are any confused messages going back and forth it can't help can it. It only takesa minute to check so why not? Have your radio code handy as you will need to disconnect the battery earth to remove the ECU. Only one screw to undo !!

A session with Nanocom or similar sounds on the cards, if nothing obvious can be seen. Sorry I can't offer anything further.

Thankyou for that. I'll have a look for oil contamination as described. Also what is Nanocom please?

Mine does something similar but I'd assumed it was normal - when I first start in the morning there's no drive for a few seconds. My theory was that the oil drains down from the torque converter overnight then needs a while to get circulating again but now you've all worried me.

Works prefectly well otherwise.

Same here.

I just put it down to my Disco waking up.

Start the engine, wait 5 seconds or so and drive away no problems at all.

Start the engine, try to drive away immediately, very slow pick up and after a few seconds, all OK.

Its been like that since new.

I do not have an issue waiting 5 seconds.:5bbeatdeadhorse5:

criky18 said:

Thankyou for that. I'll have a look for oil contamination as described. Also what is Nanocom please?

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Nanocom is an electronic diagnostic machine and gives access to pretty much all the electronic systems in the car.

To learn more go here: www.nanaocom.it

thebiglad said:

Ok well we can forget about that one then. I wonder if anything electrcial was disturbed in the process of the oil and filter change. For instance, the connector on the "XYZ" selector switch, this has a plug and socket arrangement.

It sounds to me, having re-read your description, like there is an issue of electronic communication between the gearbox and the engine. Have you checked the red plug on the engine ECU for oil contamination? I know it probably sounds un-related, but I believe the engine and gearbox "talk" to each other before firing up and if there are any confused messages going back and forth it can't help can it. It only takesa minute to check so why not? Have your radio code handy as you will need to disconnect the battery earth to remove the ECU. Only one screw to undo !!

A session with Nanocom or similar sounds on the cards, if nothing obvious can be seen. Sorry I can't offer anything further.

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Many thanks for suggestion. As you say for the sake of one screw and a battery cable its well worth having a look. I did. Its horrible. Think there's more oil swamping the ecu connection than in the gearbox! All cleaned out with solvent, blown dry, then washed with warm water and fairy liquid, blow dried again and left for an hour to really dry. Small spray of wd40. Reconnected and running ok ..... but still the cold start morning delay is still there.

Nevertheless I'm really pleased to have sorted the loom problem but do tell me........ Is there a way of resetting the ecu or should it self reset following reconnection?

Would certainly recommend all to have a look at the red plug connection as whilst it may not have been the problem here this has certainly forestalled any other problems that were only a few inches away!

I am obliged.

criky18 said:

Many thanks for suggestion. As you say for the sake of one screw and a battery cable its well worth having a look. I did. Its horrible. Think there's more oil swamping the ecu connection than in the gearbox! All cleaned out with solvent, blown dry, then washed with warm water and fairy liquid, blow dried again and left for an hour to really dry. Small spray of wd40.

Nevertheless I'm really pleased to have sorted the loom problem but do tell me........ Is there a way of resetting the ecu or should it self reset following reconnection?

Would certainly recommend all to have a look at the red plug connection as whilst it may not have been the problem here this has certainly forestalled any other problems that were only a few inches away!

I am obliged.

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Hi Crikey, so long as the battery neg lead is disconnected before disconnecting the ECU and reconnected after the ECU reconnection, there is nothing needs doing as it will/should sort itself out.

The only thing you need to do is recode your radio.

Cheers
Dave

Ps If you arre getting oil in the red plug it is coming from the injector loom, which most people just replace. However it is possible to buy the 2 blue o-rings (the cause of the oil problem) separately for about £2. Stops the oil coming back, after any residue has worked it's way through, so keep checking over the next month or so.

Well thanks for help and suggestions so far but I'm still struggling with long delay before box picks up in the morning after a night resting. I've had a look at what actually is changed during the gearbox oil change. This includes a filter and also several 'O' rings on the uptake pipe and on the filter itself.

Could it be ?? that one of these 'o' rings may have been missed off causing the box to drain to the sump overnight. Cannot believe garage overlooked but would welcome technical views as to whether this could cause the problem.

Thankyou

I believe there is only one 'o' ring on the gearbox filter when I changed mine if my memory serves me right

It sounds like your box is going into "limp" mode, which, to quote the manual, "greatly reduces vehicle performance". It is usually caused by a sensor failure - most commonly the "xyz" switch. Mine was doing it due to the xyz not displaying properly on start up, I'd pull out of the drive and it was like driving in toffee. Wiggle the stick about and it was all fine.

Is the shift red light showing okay, and the dash LED reading right?

Other thing that causes limp mode is a slipping torque converter - you can test the torque converter by doing a stall test. Brakes full on in drive, pedal to the metal for a few seconds and see what revs you get. Should be 2600-2800 on a healthy TD5.

A dodgy shift solenoid also causes limp mode - this is the actuator that physically makes the gearshift, and I have no idea where it is.

Jock