TD4 slow to start

Hi folks,

I noticed over the past few weeks my freelander TD4 year 2004 is becoming more and more sluggish on start (fast from cold then slower on warm).

Since last week Ive changed the diesel filter, oil filter, air filter (engine) and Ive cleaned out the egr valve and elec contacts to high pressure sensor.

Heres a short clip of the symptoms after a short drive to shops:

Freelander TD4 (BMW) slow start - YouTube

Is this normal for an 8 year old freelander with 35k miles on clock?

Items on to-do list:

Add millers injector cleaner mix;
Check maf
Check pcv
Check cam sensor

Any more...?

Cheers,

Anthony

becoming more and more sluggish on start (fast from cold then slower on warm).

Click to expand...

symptomatic of a failing cam sensor :

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text below from : ROVER 75 MGZT ENGINE FAULT FINDING

" CAMSHAFT SENSOR varies - worse when hot. Indefinite. No affect on performance, only starting. Starting is much worse when hot. "

2) CAMSHAFT SENSOR. (quite common) This is used only during cranking to synchronise the timing by indicating when no1 cylinder is on its compression stroke. So if it is faulty, starting becomes difficult and may vary depending upon the temperature of the engine. Once running, as the sensor is no longer used, the car will run normally. This is one way to distinguish between camshaft sensor and crankshaft sensor failure.

TIP
1) Try a squirt of East Start. If the engine stops once the easy Start has been consumed, this MAY suggest that the sensor is faulty.

2) Remove the sensor and place cool in a freezer or spray briefly with freezer spray, If the engine starts it could confirm the sensor is faulty.

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Thanks for comments,

Just to clarify:

Where exactly do I spray the easy start? Directly over the camshaft sensor housing (is this located just below the diesel fuel cap under the engine cover for BMW engine?).

Then engine should stop...

Then when spray same area with freeze should start engine quickly on ignition turn?

I'll video this attempt later today for review.

Cheers,

Anthony

ajfarrell said:

Hi folks,
Is this normal for an 8 year old freelander with 35k miles on clock?
Anthony

Click to expand...

35K:suspicious: .
I don't think that engine light should stay on for more than 5 seconds . Have you checked the in tank fuel sender ,I think its the same as the Lseries ,under the rear O/S rear seat .
In your introduction I suggested glow plug (probably coz I didn't read your first post proper . I don't think that would be a problem with a warm engine .

Where exactly do I spray the easy start? Directly over the camshaft sensor housing (is this located just below the diesel fuel cap under the engine cover for BMW engine?)

Click to expand...

i'm thinking the 'easy start' be sprayed in the air-intake while cranking to start
( might want to wait for someone to confirm yea or nay on that point )

.. btw: imho .. spraying ether into the intake to start a diesel should be a last resort
( e.g. extremely cold climate .. weak battery .. no glow-plug action )
it's not mechanicly sympathetic .. 'n has been known to knacker engines if over-used ..

might be best to get the motor warmed to where the starting problem arises ..
remove the camshaft sensor .. spray it with freezer-spray .. re-install it ..
'n see if the engine fires up ..
( that way you'll know IF the cam sensor is .. or is not .. the starting-from-warm problem )

basicly the sensor needs to be cooled down somehow
i've no idea how that particular sensor is constructed 'n why cooling might temp. fix-it
i do know that temperature rise .. and the expected life of an electronic component
be directly related ..

after reading about it on this site .. i carry a spare one in the car

( freezer-spray can be bought from 'maplin')

Is this normal for an 8 year old freelander with 35k miles on clock?

Click to expand...

electronic components can fail at anytime ..
depends on how well it's made in the first place ..
and what it's been subjected to in its life ..
e.g. heat / extreme temp. variations / vibration / knocks .. ..

if the engine has been worked hard .. e.g. towing a caravan in a hot climate
then certain components will be stressed ..
where that cam sensor sits .. be likely to get hot with little potential for cooling ..

also the td4 is known to have a water ingress problem ..
rain water accumilates on top .. around the injector harness ..
that will eventualy cause corrosion on the electrical contacts ..
which causes higher electrical resistance .. which causes heat ..
something might eventualy give .. i.e. burn out ..

or most probably .. simply not work 'cause the coroded contacts won't pass the tiddly electrical current
( 5 volts on the rail-fuel-pressure sensor )

i think .. but don't know for certain .. that the cam sensor has fine-wire winding in it
and works via 'induction' .. .. .. whatever the case .. it be known to fail ..

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Items on to-do list: .. .. .. .. Any more...?

Click to expand...

do an egr bypass/delete if you've not done so yet ..
instant better mpg and drivability ..

check 'n clean all the electrical sensor connectors ..
e.g injectors / m.a.f. / rail-pressure sensor
buy some 'contralube' .. smear on the electrical connections ..
that'll prevent them becoming corroded ..
'n hopefuly diminish the hard-to-diagnose 'my motor is acting funny' occurences
( be worth using that 'contralube' on any electrical connection that might be vulnerable )

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oh .. and be sure to take note on advice about tyres from this site ..
i.e. same make / model/ size on all 4 wheels .. 'n keep an eye on tyre air-pressure
( that's preventative medicine for those expensive transmission-drive bits )

Thanks for comments folks,

I drove 20miles today, as soon as I got back sprayed contact cleaner on all sensors then disconnected the MAF.

Outcome: slightly faster restart time (4 seconds compared to 6).

Then reconnected MAF, disconnected the camshaft sensor, popped in the freezer till really cold to touch, popped back into still warm engine.

Outcome: started within 3 seconds, same duration for start first thing in morning from cold engine! So must be the camshaft sensor, am looking at buying one here:

Freelander TD4 RRover TD6 Rover 75 Camshaft Sensor

Any comments?

Note: since all service items todate, the engine feels more responsive, a pleasure to drive!

Just bought millers diesel injector cleaner, says add bottle to 30L diesel, so thats next on list, followed by installing bypass egr fitting...with the bypass fitting, what do you do to the nipple normally connected to valve via the tube and will this affect the MOT?

From reading through the forum allot of folks have upgraded the ecu and fuel pressure sensor, is this really worth it?

Cheers,

Anthony

Dont think an improvement of 1 second in starting proves its the sensor, I think you would be better thinking injectors and wait to see if your Miller makes any difference but it may take a couple of hundred miles to find out.

Hi David,

True, could be the injectors.

From testing today it:

Typically takes 3seconds from cold start in morning.

Typically has taken 7-8 seconds from warm.

Reverted back to 3 seconds from warm today when I cooled cam sensor which indicates the cam sensor is faulty...though before cooling the sensor I also tested by disconnecting the MAF sensor thereby causing default ecu airflow setting which appear to have reduced time to start from warm to 4seconds (disn from 7-8seconds from warm).

Im going to record tests on utube to ensure accurate times.

Cheers.

Anthony

with the bypass fitting, what do you do to the nipple normally connected to valve via the tube

Click to expand...

block it off .. .. ( i used a 2" long bolt )

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/egr-blanking-mod-63948.html

some folk block off the vacuum tube at the egr end ..
( i did .. so if needed i could easily re-install the egr valve unit )
some block it off at the vacuum before the egr operating solenoid
doing that eliminates the 'expiring dying duck' sound on shut-down

it's possible simply to disconnect and block off the vaccuum pipe to the egr valve
therefore disabling it ..
best to fit a good quality ( i.e. one that won't rust up ) egr delete unit
( e.g. "AlliSport Land Rover Freelander TD4 EGR Removal Kit" ( google it ) )
as without the restrictive internal valve component
.. there's better air-flow to the intake ..

and will this affect the MOT?

Click to expand...

it's designed cut back nitros-oxide emissions ..
'n diesels aren't tested for that a.f.a.i.k. ..
( might have changed .. i've not checked .. will no doubt find out at mot time
( very easy to re-install the original egr valve ..

From reading through the forum allot of folks have upgraded the ecu and fuel pressure sensor, is this really worth it?

Click to expand...

i is confuzled .. howz that ???? .. i.e upgrading the ecu .. .. in what way ??
( you mean 'chipping' per chance ? )
and what 'upgrade' is there for the fuel pressure sensor ??

this is a good unit :
Synergy 2 from tuning-diesels.com
lets one use either a bosch m.a.f .. or pierburg m.a.f. ..
they both have Slightly different fueling curves ..
( and air-passage shape .. and metering methods i.e. hot wire versus hot plate )
one's cheaper than the other 'n said to be more reliable ..

power increase aside .. it provides a better response from the 'go' pedal overall ..
i.e. less right foot effort to reach and maintain cruising speed ..
simply makes the vehicle nicer to drive overall ..
and potentialy gives better mpg if common sense is connected to right-foot

some prefer to do an ecu 'remap' ..

btw : advisable that the engine be in good shape before going down the 'tuning' route

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the bmw cranckase vent mod is worthwhile ..
( http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/crankcase-breather-filter-picture-82162-2.html )
be loads of threads on that .. just do a site search for :
" bmw crankcase breather "

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Thanks for comments hd,

Regarding the egr, just to confirm, Ive cleaned the egr valve, now have a tube dangling about from it, so best I just block this by plugging it with a ball bearing or large screw?

Then the original nipple on engine it was connected to...can that be left open (for easy reconnection for mot) or would it be better to block it off too with a screw?

I noticed the bmw oil breather mod earlier, looks great...next item to buy.

Regarding the egr, just to confirm, Ive cleaned the egr valve, now have a tube dangling about from it, so best I just block this by plugging it

Click to expand...

yes
i.e. the vacuum hose leading From the solenoid actuator To the egr valve assembly ..
leave it connected to the solenoid .. block it at the egr end ..

or .. remove the vacuum hose that's connecting the solenoid to the primary vacuum network
'n block the feed hose off at the t-junction .. that'll negate the odd noise at engine shutdown

Then the original nipple on engine it was connected to...can that be left open (for easy reconnection for mot) or would it be better to block it off too with a screw?

Click to expand...

you mean the vacuum hose nipple that's part of the egr assembly ?
if so .. then that can be left open .. it's part of a diaphram/spring chamber ..
unless you feel like covering it so no airborne crap floats in .. )

here's a graphic .. be showing a petrol motor .. but principal be the same
http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/graphics/egr-valve.gif
with the valve shut .. no exhaust gas enters the air intake
( the vacuum opens the valve .. spring closes it )

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another mod some install be silicone intercooler hoses:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/silicone-hoses-td4-174530.html

Silicone Hose Manufacturer Silicone Reducers Elbows Alloy Joiners T-bolt Stainless Clamps Vacuum Hose

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btw: this is a good site ..

http://topix.landrover.jlrext.com/topix/vehicle/lookupForm

some info requires registration ..

some info doesn't .. e.g. 'vehicle owners operation manual'
( via the 'owner' tab )

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some other web pages :

http://www.myfreelander.co.uk/Overview/overviewMenu.htm

http://www.bellengineering.co.uk/5.html
(explains the 4wd system )

http://www.yildiz.edu.tr/~oisin/Dersler/Dersnotlari/0653611/dinjection.pdf

http://www.rover-club.net/graphics/manuals/16/m47r_diesel.pdf
( does not include the variable vane type turbo )

http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel-engine-smoke.php

Block it at the t junction and jobs a goodun.
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/attachments/f9/20100d1291907511-egr-blanking-mod-yooiu.jpg

If you want a peg and pipe then pm me your address and I'll send you one
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/egr-blanking-mod-63948-20.html
(post 197 shows the bit), brilliant thread too.
My tickover was awful and did this, egr clean, crankcase uprated filter and turbo filter and was amazed at the difference.


Cheers