td4 bogs down and stalls on tough lanes synergy

I have synergy 2a and big tyres so effectively geared a bit higher. Seem to have problems with engine bogging down and stalling with foot to floor when on some uphill sections of lanes or over rocky bits. A 1.8 petrol with us seems to cope much easier (standard tyres)
It seems a real battle sometime and just wondering if the synergy could be confusing the ecu and not allowing the correct or best mixture for it to keep power.
Are the 1.8s better for keeping going at low revs under load. 1100 to 2000 rpm ish
All seems well other wise with more road acceleration with synergy. (New maf from rover Ron with synergy)
Thinking of remap now tuned for low rev grunt

I would be well surprised if the TD4 ran out of grunt before the 1.8 on a climb, though the 1.8's 1st gear is a noticeably higher ratio I have the data somewhere. Took my 1.8 out today and it was just "fire and forget" all the way. Point it, put foot down, it does the rest. Fecking brilliant!

I'll be keen to see where this goes, I'm interested in comparing the 1.8's to the other engines .

Seem to have problems with engine bogging down and stalling with foot to floor when on some uphill sections

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happened to me on some 'b' road steep uphills .. after i'd stopped 'n parked midway ..
never stalled out .. but in 'next' gear it bogged down refusing to accelerate ..
had to downshift ..
have since learnt to give it lots of revs before upchanging in similar circumstances ..

Thinking of remap now tuned for low rev grunt

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don't think that would work .. as it needs airflow over the maf sensor to give more fuel
you'd have to change the ammount of fuel injected at very low airflow ..
probably enough to cause a fair amount of black smoke 'till the turbo kicked in ..
in which case it might .. or probably would .. fail an m.o.t. on emissions

maybe there's a way around that (?)

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having an auto-shift would probably be an advantage .. for off road ..

WLJayne said:

I would be well surprised if the TD4 ran out of grunt before the 1.8 on a climb, though the 1.8's 1st gear is a noticeably higher ratio I have the data somewhere. Took my 1.8 out today and it was just "fire and forget" all the way. Point it, put foot down, it does the rest. Fecking brilliant!

I'll be keen to see where this goes, I'm interested in comparing the 1.8's to the other engines .

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I find 1st gear on mine to be very low - in fact in mondo (and often with prop), usually pull away in 2nd unless on an up incline.

DD3 said:

I find 1st gear on mine to be very low - in fact in mondo (and often with prop), usually pull away in 2nd unless on an up incline.

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Yeh I think they deliberately geared the 1.8's 1st really low to make up for the lack of low rev torque. Still not bad for a petrol engine, I imagine that the K series rovers must be pretty peppy of the line!!

I find 1st and second gear in the 1.8 work really well off the road in fact better off than on the road lol

When I 1st started I would always get scared of getting stuck and nailing it! But now I just keep it ticking over in 1st or 2nd and it seems to do the job!

Plus I then bought grabber at2's and they help a huge amount compared to standard road tyres

Enough of this nonsense!

TD4s do NOT run out of grunt!

They have an over-abundance of grunt!

My present grunt-machine is an auto but the previous manual was similarly grunt endowed.

The manual was not so good off road as it sometimes needed 'too much' right foot to get over rocks with the complete control I prefer. Barging on can be a bit risky at times. I don't like slipping the clutch either.

The auto is impossible to stall of course.

The one thing that stops me is the 'Laws of Physics'. At the extreme I can have all 4 wheels turning slowly and the hill is just too steep.

Back down and then take a run at it usually works but I :crazy_driver:much prefer to take it at around 1000 - 1250rpm in 1st.

Deep mud (over 4") is another game of course - which I dont usually play - especially if I'm towing.

Is the EGR removed, this caused ours to bog when acceleration was required, not off road, but pause at a junction, pull away and it would bog down. It never stalled unless pullling something and under load mind you, just would bog for a couple of secs while the crap exhaust gases cleared, then away..
But no the TD4 is a great motor, never any shortage of grunt, will happily pull from 1000 revs in 3rd with a heavy load..

Singvogel said:

The manual was not so good off road as it sometimes needed 'too much' right foot to get over rocks with the complete control I prefer. Barging on can be a bit risky at times. I don't like slipping the clutch either.

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This is exactly the issue I have with mine - First gear is too tall for slow off-road stuff. Clambering it over an obstacle is much harder than it should be. 1st gear at high enough revs to prevent it stalling means the vehicle is often moving too fast for comfort/safety and the only alternative is to slip the clutch, which I don't like. The situation is made ten times worse if I have a trailer on too.

I am back to debating whether to keep my freelander again, as pretty much daily I have to tear the arse out of the clutch to get up some parts of the tracks I have to drive....If it had a lo-ratio box then it would be the perfect car, but sadly it doesnt.

Thanks for the comments. I have the EGR bypass kit on.
I let the anti-stall take care of the gentle slopes with all feet off. But up bigger slopes I think I had it in power mode when it stalled and I was going about 10 to 15 mph. The 1.8 behind couldn't believe it had stalled and thought I was taking **** stopping in a bad place for him.
2nd day I left it in economy mode. I seem to have to thrash it to keep it going, which isn't good over some of the nasty places.
On road it's great, good acceleration and pulls up hills easily past all the petrol cars.

dave21478 said:

This is exactly the issue I have with mine - First gear is too tall for slow off-road stuff. Clambering it over an obstacle is much harder than it should be. 1st gear at high enough revs to prevent it stalling means the vehicle is often moving too fast for comfort/safety and the only alternative is to slip the clutch, which I don't like. The situation is made ten times worse if I have a trailer on too.

I am back to debating whether to keep my freelander again, as pretty much daily I have to tear the arse out of the clutch to get up some parts of the tracks I have to drive....If it had a lo-ratio box then it would be the perfect car, but sadly it doesnt.

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Sounds like you have a genuine reason to consider another car, the Freelander does suffer for not having low range . Trouble is unless you've got cash for a tra-ta then you'll be stuck with lots of welding even if you get a good one .

I have the same problem when driving on a forest track where i have been cutting wood - really miss a low gear - slipping the clutch is a (very) short term solution because it doesn't take long for that ominous smell of burnt clutch lining to appear

The only solution is to crawl in 1st but that is much too fast when climbing on a really rough track with protruding volcanic rocks just waiting to wreck my sump and suspension

WLJayne said:

Sounds like you have a genuine reason to consider another car, the Freelander does suffer for not having low range . Trouble is unless you've got cash for a tra-ta then you'll be stuck with lots of welding even if you get a good one .

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Or perhaps an auto Disco Td5?

The real solution is to get a TD4 with an auto-box.

Has everyone taken note that at all the LR 'Experience' off-road courses they only use autos (except for Defenders) so that you can inch forward up slopes and over improbably large boulders.

I was a late convert to autos - I remember Fords and even M-Benzes with only 3 gears - didn't matter which gear - it was never the right one!

At my first LR off-road day I insisted in 'having a go' with my own manual 2002 TD4 after having tried the auto they had for us - result mucho embarrassment.

The 'finesse' with which you can crawl over rocks and logs, starting and stopping at precisely the correct point is amazing.

Setting off with a laden trailer on mud or grass becomes a dawdle.

Now the purists can nay-say if they like that the auto takes all the skill out of hill climbing - but my goal is to get to where I want to be in safety without having abused the transmission. :behindsofa:

I'm talking about the real everyday work-a-day world here - an off-road trials day competition is another matter.

Yes, an auto would be a good solution for me, but I am not sure I would buy another freelander. I also have a Mazda b2500 pickup, which has the all important low-ratio box, BUT rwd only on the road with an unladen pickup bed makes for alarming handling if I want to press on a bit. - Thats the problem with all these pickups - a live rear axle (mine has an LSD too) and leaf springs is....primitive to say the least. Gr8 4 driftin, yo - but when you just want to go round a wet roundabout with minimum fuss, not so great. The sure-footedness of a freelander both on and off road appeals a lot to me but the limitations of a manual box on mine are a real pain in the chuff....As things are I doubt if my clutch will last beyond the end of this year.

I keep looking at Discoveries, but don't know if I could own another again either....What Jap trucks have full time 4 wheel drive?

dave21478 said:

Yes, an auto would be a good solution for me, but I am not sure I would buy another freelander. I also have a Mazda b2500 pickup, which has the all important low-ratio box, BUT rwd only on the road with an unladen pickup bed makes for alarming handling if I want to press on a bit. - Thats the problem with all these pickups - a live rear axle (mine has an LSD too) and leaf springs is....primitive to say the least. Gr8 4 driftin, yo - but when you just want to go round a wet roundabout with minimum fuss, not so great. The sure-footedness of a freelander both on and off road appeals a lot to me but the limitations of a manual box on mine are a real pain in the chuff....As things are I doubt if my clutch will last beyond the end of this year.

I keep looking at Discoveries, but don't know if I could own another again either....What Jap trucks have full time 4 wheel drive?

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I think you can get away with mentioning Disco's on here but Jap trucks - careful. More heresy, but Jeep maybe? :behindsofa:

Young disco 2 would do well but they are pricey at high specs .

Never had a problem with my TD4 manual, only before I ditched EGR. It's lifted and on 205/80/16 tyres, done alot of green laning too.

My upgrade to a D2 is a question of when rather than if - nothing wrong with FL but fancy a change

Update - Last week I turned the Synergy from setting 10 (great for road and acceleration) to 8. My timings that rover ron suggest (30 to 50 mph) etc showed setting 10 was better.
But just been to Yorkshire Dales and Moors this weekend with it on setting 8 and it was like a different car. I've learnt to love it again.
There were a few points where on low revs she started to go, but with some right boot she recovered without stalling and carried on.
So I think the setting 10 was just over-fueling the system at low revs when I needed the most torque and causing the engine to bog down too easily.