Freelander 1 td4 auto slamming into gears

This is how I see it.
FWD only: autobox > driveshafts > wheels.
Less load as FWD will either spiny wheels or tc will kick in reducing load on autobox.

4WD: autobox > Front driveshafts > wheels.
> Ird > propshaft > rear diff > Rear driveshafts > wheels.

Plus Ird oil > rear diff oil, not to mention the load/resistance of the VCU. And the hippo had got to weigh more than any FWD vehicle.

add all that to a muddy field pulling a horse box uphill.


That's just got be more strain on the oil/box compared to a normal FWD family run around.

The box may be good for 300nm but are the oils?

The recommended duration between auto oil changes on the FL1 is every 60k miles. That's the book mileage with LR spec'ing the oil in conjunction with the manufacturer. It's not a full change. It's a part change which give enough to reinvigorate the auto oil.

If you do a lot of oft road work or a lot of towing then this puts more strain on the vehicle. Hence LR suggest servicing a vehicle more often. So you would change the engine oil a bit sooner than recommended. Same for the auto. LR don't spec a mileage for this but they do refer to in int manwell, then tell you to ask a dealer for advice. They base it on the owner considering how much harder the vehicle has worked. 10k miles sooner than normal is typically what peeps would do it for the auto oil. No different to checking the brakes and changing the brake fluid sooner than required if going through deep water a lot oft road.

Nodge68 said:

Although ATF-U no longer shows as an N402 equivalent for the FL1 Jatco box. ATF-U still shows Esso LT 71141 and Ford Mercon V, both of which are suitable for the Jatco box when fitted to a Jaguar X type. So I'm more than happy to use ATF-U, knowing it well exceeds the original LR stuff.

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Do you have the spec of the original fluid or the spec of what Jatco state is a chemical must to include in the oil when making it? Or do you know how they rate auto oil spec? For eggsample engine oil being given a value like 10w-40 with codes after it like the ACEA A3 ref or for gear oil the GL5 ref on the end.

It would be great to find a spec sheet on the N402 stuff, I've searched hi n low n can't find owt, maybe Nodge has some info

This is an interesting read.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?85956-Friction-Modifiers-in-Automatic-trans-fluid

Found this stuff Comma MVATF Plus fully synthetic. Specs list "Special ATF; N402" Halford sell it at £29.99 for 5 Liters.

jedi said:

It would be great to find a spec sheet on the N402 stuff, I've searched hi n low n can't find owt, maybe Nodge has some info

This is an interesting read.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?85956-Friction-Modifiers-in-Automatic-trans-fluid

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Never found an exact spec for the N402, other than its basically Dexron II.

jedi said:

Found this stuff Comma MVATF Plus fully synthetic. Specs list "Special ATF; N402" Halford sell it at £29.99 for 5 Liters.

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I use Carlube ATF-U and have done for a long time. It used to list is as an N402 compatible fluid, so I use it.

Wasn't your gear box suffering from shuddering using this carlube atf?

jedi said:

Wasn't your gear box suffering from shuddering using this carlube atf?

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Nope. It was the torque converter clutch. It was shuddering because I didn't get round to changing the fluid and I overloaded it.
It's had 2 changes of ATF-U and 2 tubes of Shudder fix. The shudder has now been fixed and the gear changes are smooth as silk.

So how long have you been using the carlube stuff for in'th gearbox?

jedi said:

So how long have you been using the carlube stuff for in'th gearbox?

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I've been using ATF-U in Jatco boxes since I got my first FL1 auto 2011. That was in my old V6, that the mother in law still drives daily. Up to now that has done 50K ATF-U miles and it still changes gear smoother than when I got it. Bearing in mind that I first took ownership of the V6 when it had just 32 K (now 81 odd) on the clock. The first thing I did was condemned the engine. However I did notice the boxx was quite rough on up changes on the test drive. So while I was doing the engine change, I took the opportunity to replace the box fluid. Having researched different fluids and prices for them, I settled on ATF-U. The bottles still had N402 compatible on the side at that point. Once my V6 was up and running, I noticed the improvement in changes from when I drove it before the engine swap. It was and still is changing smoothly, even 50K after it was last done.

I was slack with my current TD4, owning it for 18 months before doing the fluid change. I was under the impression it had been done as it had a new fluid cooler fitted. The box changed OK, but not as good as the V6 had done. I put this down to the different engine characteristics. However running the engine flat out with the Synergy on max and a 1200 Kg trailer on the rear up a 1 in 6 hill caused the TC clutch issue. It was my fault for asking to much and assuming all was fine with box. The fluid that came out my box was clearly well past its best and should have been changed, long before I had no choice. My TD4 had 118K on it before I changed the fluid, so it's little wonder the box complained when I was expecting more than it was ever designed to give.

So no ATF-U didn't damage the box, but the lack of a fluid change definitely did. I'm just glad that the box is now changing better than it ever did, and yes it's got ATF-U in it now.

Well that's good to hear..just been having a quick read on that Dr Tranny shudder fix stuff (I'm guessing that's what you used ) it sounds interesting as do their other atf aditives. Maybe of interest to Mr Hippo..

Here's a bit i found interesting about sperm Whales and friction modifiers.
http://www.lubegard.com/LXE.aspx

jedi said:

Well that's good to hear..just been having a quick read on that Dr Tranny shudder fix stuff (I'm guessing that's what you used ) it sounds interesting as do their other atf aditives. Maybe of interest to Mr Hippo..

Here's a bit i found interesting about sperm Whales and friction modifiers.
http://www.lubegard.com/LXE.aspx

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I first used Dr Tranny's Shudder fix in my Ford Maverick, which had a shudder issue when the TC locked. It did what it said on the tube, so guessed it would work on the FL Jatco too. I think my SE TC clutch has worn faster than it should because there's an issue with the TCM. Basically at random intervals, when it changes up to 5th, the TC locks straight up, only for the TCM to realise the engine is now running to slow for TC lock, so the TC unlocks again. As road speed increases, the TCM locks TC again as it should. So this double lock, unlock, lock thing has I suspect worn the TC clutch more than it should have. I think another forum user has a similar issue with there auto, but I can't remember who it is now. It's very annoying and something that my V6 never did. In fact the V6 was my most reliable FL1 I've owned, once I'd replaced the engine with one I'd rebuilt myself.

ATF 1 from years ago used to have oils from a whale in its make-up. Obviously these days there are synthetic equivalents, or whales would be doomed.

There is a Tc lock up solinoid in the autobox maybe this could be ya problem..it's one of the 3 duty solinoids which are prone to go apparently. Might be worth a try?

jedi said:

There is a Tc lock up solinoid in the autobox maybe this could be ya problem..it's one of the 3 duty solinoids which are prone to go apparently. Might be worth a try?

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I'd already thought about that some time back.
I've back probed the TC lock solenoid wire at the TCM, using a test light in series with the solenoid for visual indication. I then drove the car so I could see when the TCM was was energizing the TC solenoid. When it changed to 5th, the light lit and TC locked as soon as the up change took place. Then a second or so later the light went out and TC unlocked, until the speed was acceptable for the TC to lock again indicated by the light coming back on. Interestingly when the TC locks when it shouldn't, the test light lit brightly, like it was just switched on. When the TC locked at the correct time, the light lit at half brightness for a second or so, progressively reaching full brightness. So the TCM is definitely modulating the solenoid to make the TC lock softly. This leads me to think that this strange fault is a software glitch in the TCM, rather than a electro-mechanical fault in the box.

I've seen the TCM's on ebay for £15 could be worth a shot.
And all the 9x solinoids for £50 2nd hand.

I could not find anything wrong with the 3 solinoids I swapped out but doing so cured my harsh/slamming into gear problem.

Yours may be going open circuit under load, them the TCM senses somerts wrong and and starts ramping up or decreasing the pulses to compensate? Modulating/ac waves are a ball ache to test without proper test equipment...