Tachographs in a 300Tdi

Bustrucket · Nov 30, 2010

Hi folks, long time no speak!

I'm looking at buying a 300Tdi Disco and using it to tow a car trailer. I know that as the combined weight will be over 3500kg I will need a tacho, although fortunately I am exempt from O-licence rules.

The gubberment websites and VOSA are less than helpful on the subject, I went down my local VOSA place in Redruth, got fobbed off and told to ring VOSA Exeter to speak to a Traffic Examiner, who gave me the number of an Examiner in Redruth, whose phone is switched off.

I need to know:

Rough costs of fitting a tacho
Driving hours - what rules do I go by?

Also, will a 300Tdi auto or manual be better for regular towing? I'd prefer an auto if i'm going to be doing lots of mileage.

Cheers, Scott

Bromsgrove Defender · Nov 30, 2010

I might be wrong but I was under the impression you'd only need a tacho if you were towing as part of a business.
If it's purely a private thing i.e. not for commercial and or hire/pay then I think your o.k.

Sean · Nov 30, 2010

is this for a business need ?

paul_c · Nov 30, 2010

You only need a tacho in a commercial vehicle (with business use, over 3.5t, etc etc). If its in a car, its exempt.

Bromsgrove Defender · Nov 30, 2010

paul_c said:
You only need a tacho in a commercial vehicle (with business use, over 3.5t, etc etc). If its in a car, its exempt.

Erm what about the for hire or reward bit

Bustrucket · Nov 30, 2010

It's for business use. Partially collecting cars from auction, partially car logistics.

Nigel-S · Nov 30, 2010

Bustrucket said:
It's for business use. Partially collecting cars from auction, partially car logistics.

if its for business use, and gross vehicle weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes you will need a tachograph. You will also need an operators licence, theres 3 types of licence. 1) transport your own goods. 2) hire and reward, domestic. 3) hire and reward, international. You will also need a licensed operating centre where you keep the vehicle. In addition you will need to demonstrate your ability to carry out 6 weekly checks on your vehicle, or a contract with a vosa approved garage. You will need to keep daily records of your mileage and daily vehicle checks. And thats just to start with.

To be honest I cant see that its worth all the trouble for an old disco and trailer. You would be far better off buying a 7.5 tonne transporter. You have to convince vosa that you are a reputable person of sound financial standing and will operate your business in a professional manner.

On the other hand if you are a private individual buying the odd car at auction, you can legitimately collect that vehicle on a trailer towed by your disco.

Bustrucket · Nov 30, 2010

According to VOSA I don't need an O-licence:

Taken from www.businesslink.gov.uk/transport:

Goods vehicles exempt from operator licensing requirements
Dual-purpose vehicles, showman's goods vehicles and other vehicles that don't need an operator's licence
There are several other categories of vehicle that don't need a goods vehicle operator's licence, including:

Dual-purpose (road and off-road) vehicles. This includes all dual-purpose vehicles, such as Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Jeeps, 4x4s and their trailers - that are designed to go over rough ground as well as on roads, provided they do not weigh more than 2,040 kilograms when unladen.

I've had plenty of dealings with the requirements of O-licences in the PSV industry and it's a right pain in the arse.

Bromsgrove Defender · Nov 30, 2010

Well seeing as this appears to have gone full circle

I would write/phone vosa to enquire whether or not I needed a tachograph and demand a written confirmation one way or the other.

Bustrucket · Nov 30, 2010

Sounds like snail mail may be my only option. The number I was given for the traffic examiner is still switched off, messages I left on voicemail have so far gone unanswered

paul_c · Nov 30, 2010

Bromsgrove Defender said:
Erm what about the for hire or reward bit

A car's still a car even if its used for towing something for business, even if its a Land Rover car and can tow 3.5t putting its GTW something like 6 tons or so.

Can you clarify - because you can get a Disco van - your Disco 300TDI is a CAR?

Bromsgrove Defender · Nov 30, 2010

Bromsgrove Defender said:
paul_c said:

You only need a tacho in a commercial vehicle (with business use, over 3.5t, etc etc). If its in a car, its exempt.

Click to expand...

Erm what about the for hire or reward bit

paul_c said:
A car's still a car even if its used for towing something for business, even if its a Land Rover car and can tow 3.5t putting its GTW something like 6 tons or so.

Can you clarify - because you can get a Disco van - your Disco 300TDI is a CAR?

WTF

got nuffin to do with it being a car or van or bicycle.

if any of the above is towing 3.5 tonne or more and is a COMMERCIAL vehicle ie being used for a business, for hire or reward.

Does that help ??

goonarmy · Nov 30, 2010

paul_c said:
A car's still a car even if its used for towing something for business, even if its a Land Rover car and can tow 3.5t putting its GTW something like 6 tons or so.

Can you clarify - because you can get a Disco van - your Disco 300TDI is a CAR?

so your saying a defender couty (with seats) can tow wa heavy load,lets say combined weight of 6 tons without a tacho but a hardtop cant?Both fcor commercial reasons?

paul_c · Nov 30, 2010

goonarmy said:
so your saying a defender couty (with seats) can tow wa heavy load,lets say combined weight of 6 tons without a tacho but a hardtop cant?Both fcor commercial reasons?

That's the letter of the law in the UK - cars have an exemption from requiring a tacho. If I find it, I'll quote the law and you can look at it etc.

goonarmy · Nov 30, 2010

sounds like that would be helpful.Have got a graph up at work (we tow with hardtop defenders) saying when its needed.All our landies have tachos.

paul_c · Nov 30, 2010

Found it:

National Trailer & Towing Association Ltd v Chief Constable Of Hampshire [1997] EWHC Admin 1001 (11th November, 1997)

happy reading

Bromsgrove Defender · Nov 30, 2010

paul_c said:
That's the letter of the law in the UK - cars have an exemption from requiring a tacho. If I find it, I'll quote the law and you can look at it etc.

When ya find it Paul send a copy to Bustrucket please. I'm betting you'll find it quicker than he'll get an answer from VOSA

Trewey · Nov 30, 2010

There's no need for a tacho if the following exception applies...
"Vehicles with a maximum permissable weight of not more that 7.5t carrying material or equipment for the driver's use in the course of his work within a 50 Km radius of the place where the vehicle is normally based, provided that driving the vehicle does not constitute the drivers main activity."

goonarmy · Nov 30, 2010

paul_c said:
Found it:

National Trailer & Towing Association Ltd v Chief Constable Of Hampshire [1997] EWHC Admin 1001 (11th November, 1997)

happy reading

hehe, old bill dont know the score on this either then.

Blackdogtrucker · Nov 30, 2010

Bad news is if u are gonne use it for hire & reward & it over 3.5t gross it needs a tacho and you have the same rules on hours as me when i drive my 44 tonner you realy dont want to get into that as there is a new law on its whey in a driver cpc thats gonna cost u £900 to sit just to drive plus u wiil need a digital drivers card thats gonne cost as well a digital tacho will cost u about £1000 plus fitting so uless u are gonna make good money walk away as for the driver hours thats a minefield that they keep changing

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