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SWB re-chassis

Discussion in 'Series Land Rovers' started by Rubins4, Jun 11, 2013.

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  1. Rubins4

    Rubins4 Well-Known Member

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    THE GOOD
    So, some progress...
    I gathered together 5 long wheel base rims, had them stripped of the assorted worn out tyres and had them shot blasted then zinc phosphate primed. They all had about 10 layers of paint on which when that was all off, they looked really good.

    IMG_20171026_202739[1].jpg
    IMG_20171026_202754.jpg

    Before painting I gave them a hand sand with a medium paper and then a fine. You can see sanding dust dust in some of the pictures. I also gave them a wipe down with this stuff... I think it is basically the same as the stuff @Stretch kindly advised. They did this from the paint supplier and since I was putting in an order anyway :p

    https://paintman.co.uk/shop/prep-cl...leaning-solvent-pre-painted-panel-degreasant/

    The shot blaster suggested it would be a good idea to seal in the joints with decorators caulk as that is where water tends to trap and start rusting from. Sounded sensible so I gave it a go as I had a tube knocking about. Took a bit of practice but I got there in the end. Go over it with a wet finger afterwards to get a good finish (oo-er).

    IMG_20171105_163451.jpg

    IMG_20171105_202436.jpg

    Then I applied 2 coats of Paintman Limestone coach enamel. I didn't use thinners but did have the can nice and warm to make it as workable as possible. I used a couple of Hamilton Perfection brushes.

    As the weather was getting cold and the Mrs was a way for the weekend, I turned the living room into a paint shop :D I built some little plinths for the wheels to sit on so I could get round them and keep them off the floor. Fortunately, the cat didn't sit in any of the wet paint.
    IMG_20171109_144357.jpg

    Cameras on phones these days are so good, it picks up every minor surface texture. I think this was the first coat par way through drying.
    IMG_20171109_162522.jpg
    This is the second coat dried.
    IMG_20171110_120214.jpg
    It took a good few days of ****ing about doing 2 coats on each side but got there in the end. :)
    IMG_20171111_120625.jpg

    They are now off at the tyres place having a set of 5 Avon Rangemasters 7.50 x 16 fitted. Looking forward to getting them back.

    Electrics
    The other big job at the minute is the electrics. The new loom is in and most of it is wired up. The engine starts on the key which is great. Everything on the dash that I am able to check seems to work. I've been working on the back end as the tub is now back on. The side lights work, as do the brake lights.

    THE BAD

    I'm really struggling to get the indicators to do anything. Its got the added complexity of a hazard switch which is making it harder. I've looked high and low for a wiring diagram which relates to what I have and I cant seem to find the right thing; I'm starting to get a bit cheesed off with it. I only get a few hours once a week (if that) with the landy so progress is pretty slow. Its also bloody cold and by the end of today I couldn't feel anything with my fingers.:(

    I'm really struggling to understand how the system ought to work without a diagram. I have wired it back in how it came apart but nothing. The front end isn't back on yet, is that preventing a full circuit being created? If anyone has a decent diagram I would be eternally grateful.

    THE UGLY

    In all this wiring work I discovered something today which I cant get my head around- the ign live (white) and perm live (brown) on the back of the ign switch both show battery voltage AND continuity to earth. Either I've completely misunderstood how wiring circuits operate or something is awry. If fact it is worse, I checked the continuity between the battery negative post and the starter solenoid positives (both sides) and there is continuity there too! What the hell?? There no smoke or flames, everything that I have been able to get working still does, I am at a loss. any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
  2. LincolnSteve

    LincolnSteve Well-Known Member

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    You can't leave me dangling like that! What happened?
     
  3. Rubins4

    Rubins4 Well-Known Member

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    Ha! Sorry, I pressed Reply rather then Upload File by mistake!

    I'm glad someone's following this tripe. :p
     
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  4. Tall Ratbag

    Tall Ratbag Member

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    Are you checking continuity while the circuit / terminals are live? If so, you'll get misleading results.

    Checking resistance or continuity is fine when you've got a disconnected/dead wiring loom and you want to identify which wires connect to which, or, if you've a sensor like a fuel level sensor or temperature sensor which you need to check in isolation from its circuit. In most other circumstances there are better and more robust ways to check.
     
  5. LincolnSteve

    LincolnSteve Well-Known Member

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    Great progress!
    The wheels look fantastic.
    It is hard to find time isn't it. At this time of year by the time you finish work there is no daylight and it's usually bloody freezing. Then at weekends there's usually a load of chores that need doing. Then you need to get some family time and some relaxation. Next thing you know it's time to go back to work.
    It's the shortest day on the 21st so technically we are on the way back to summer. ;)
    As for the wiring i'm afraid I can't help. It's an area that I struggle with. You would think that I would know more considering I worked in an auto electricians for 6 months. No wonder I left quickly. I never understood a thing!o_O
    Keep going. You're doing a grand job.
     
  6. Rubins4

    Rubins4 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that. Yes, I believe the battery was connected so there is a fair chance that the results of the continuity tests were inaccurate. When I get back for another look I will try again with the battery disconnected. If I have understood you correctly this will give more accurate readings.

    Thanks for the support, as you know it can be hard work making progress with these things normally, but especially when something stumps you. Even though I'm lucky enough to be working indoors it can get so bloody cold my fingers don't work! I've clearly been behind a desk too long.

    Hazard Warning System

    I've looked high and low and the best diagram I can find is this one. I'm still not convinced it reflects the hardware I'm trying to put together.
    Hazard System.png

    I have one of these:
    Lucas 2 pin flasher relay
    Lucas Flasher.png

    4 Pin Bosch Relay
    Bosch reflay.png
    Hazard Switch
    Hazard Switch.png
    New Lucas Indicator Switch. The self canceller on the old one had broken.
    Indicator Switch.png

    Am I missing anything at all?

    Looking at this a bit closer, I think -

    the DPDT Switch on the diagram is the hazard switch,
    the flasher unit is the Bosch Relay
    the New flasher unit is the Lucas 2 pin flasher unit

    If that is right then that's the best start I've had on this. I just need to work out the pins on the hazard switch.

    Wheels & Tyres

    Just had the call that these are ready so will be picking them up later. Pictures to follow :D:)
     
    Gun7354 and LincolnSteve like this.
  7. Rubins4

    Rubins4 Well-Known Member

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    So, Christmas has come and gone, and I have a bit of progress to report.

    Wheels & Tyres

    Got these all together and ready to go on when the time comes (I need to double check my work on the brakes and hubs then get some fluid in the brake system first). The pictures don't do justice to the height of the things, they are hoooge! For reference, in the first picture that is a set of golf clubs to the left, the top of the wheels is well over 2/3rd of the height.

    There is also about an inch of tread on them so they should last forever at 40 mph. I think the spare will go in the tub rather than on the bonnet for general practicality / security, not sure yet. I'll also probably paint the counter weights, but I'll wait to see if they are noticeable once one, bigger fish to fry just yet.
    IMG_20171213_193626.jpg
    IMG_20171213_193537.jpg

    Wiring

    This has been the focus of my attention, the externals particularly as the dash stuff seems to be works, as far as I can tell so far.

    At the back end, brakes, side lights, number plate light and indicators work. Fog light and reverse light still to fix. The fog light switch seems to be the problem, as does the hazard switch (both are the multi wired pull type so perhaps I'm getting these wrong?). New indicator switch has gone in well. I'll hook the reverses lights up to a gear lever mounted switch.

    At the front, the passenger wing has gone on, side light and indicators work. Inner shield has gone in (PITA that was). IMG_20180106_180859.jpg
    Its been interesting getting the front panel all lined up with a new SS fixing kit. Originally it uses nuts and bots but the new kit uses spire nuts and screws. Bit of fiddling and we got there in the end. Drivers side should go on quicker having now made all the mistakes (spires nuts on the wrong way round on the front panel)

    I also have a harness to run the new halogen headlights through relays instead of the dash.
    http://www.paddockspares.com/boomslang-performance-headlight-loom.html
    I know you can probably make your own for less but, well, *shrug*. In for a penny in for a pound.

    Bit more update yet to come but that will have to wait until tomorrow. :)



     
  8. Land Raver

    Land Raver Well-Known Member

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    Nice work on the wheels. Don't let any brake fluid get on those when you bleed the system up! :)
    Good to have the project in a garage though this time of year.
     
  9. rob1miles

    rob1miles Well-Known Member

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    The 2 pin flasher unit goes in the supply before the trun switch so it just inturrupts the supply to make the flashes, it will only work on 2 bulbs at a time as its eaither a hot wire or a bimettlic strip so its very current sensitive. The hazards need 4 bulbs on so you need the other unit but you also need the hazards to flash both sides without connecting them the rest of the time so there's normally a relay or a 4 pole switch. The hazard flasher units usually have a wire for the warning light and a separate supply. Do you have left and right indicator warning lights or a single one? L/R are wired in parallel with the indicators but a single one is wired across left and right.
     
  10. LincolnSteve

    LincolnSteve Well-Known Member

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    Great progress. Those tyres are just the job. They will look perfect.
     
  11. Rubins4

    Rubins4 Well-Known Member

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    I'll try! the tyre fitters broke the paint in a few places and also got grease on them. I may end up giving them a touch up. A friend and I rent a barn, its a god send. I wouldn't dream of doing this on a driveway or on the street. Fair play to those that do, very commendable.

    I've got the indicators working so I'm happy with the 2-pin flasher, as you say, in the power supply side. By other unit, I assume you bean the Bosch thing (see previous posts above) which i think is a relay. When you say 'hazard warning units' do you hazard warning switch? I have separate left & right warning lights on the dash which would therefore be wired in parallel.

    Thanks Steve. I pushed one up to a hub to have a ganders. I'll need to jack it up some more to get them on :eek::)
     
  12. Rubins4

    Rubins4 Well-Known Member

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    There rest of the update -

    Door Tops
    Last night I had a closer look at the door tops. I stripped them down months ago as the glazing channels were clearly FUBAR. I was hoping to reuse them with new channels as I believe they are the originals but a second glance suggests they have had it.

    The channels...
    IMG_20180107_201838.jpg
    IMG_20180107_201904.jpg

    ...but unfortunately the frames are no better, even though from the outside they look alright.
    IMG_20180107_201853.jpg
    IMG_20180107_201928.jpg
    IMG_20180107_201935.jpg

    Fortunately, some time ago I happened to find a replacement set of tops and some repaired and re-skinned bottoms going locally.
    IMG_20180107_203909.jpg
    IMG_20180107_203919.jpg IMG_20180107_203919.jpg

    They have been in storage for some time and are starting to rust already :confused: I don't hold much hope for them but they are the best I have at the minute. I'll trial fit with a new glazing kit and 'Series 3 Club' rubber channel pieces (on order, here soon), repaint, dinitrol inside then rebuild. I gave the original glass a good clean which came up well. Should I get them engraved?
    IMG_20180107_204350.jpg

    I also stripped the window locking mechanisms out of the old tops. I've noticed people taking 'dynamic' photos rather then my rather boring static ones, so I thought I'd give that a try...
    IMG_20180107_202220.jpg
    IMG_20180107_202556.jpg

    IMG_20180107_202741.jpg
    I nearly blinded myself with a flying bit of swarf prying out of the old mechanism, so be careful folks, even with the easy stuff.

    I now have some dirty window locks to clean, then lube.
    IMG_20180107_204508.jpg

    That's where I'm up to with the rebuild.

    Insurance
    Now its starting to come together, I though I best get some cover. I searched about for some recommended classic insurers on here and in Classic Land Rover magazine (avid reader). I phoned 2 places in the end. The first offered a classic policy, 5,000 miles limited mileage, £7,500 agreed value - £165 premium, £100 excess (not bad I thought), but EU and breakdown cover was about £40 extra. Free tracker, but you have to pay a monthly subscription yourself.

    The second place I tried offered the same cover (but with EU / Breakdown included) but no free tracker, for £270 with £100 excess or a bit less with £200 excess- Which one do you want? he asks on the phone (cheeky git), I said neither as I had a better quote elsewhere, so he disappears for 5 mins then comes back with same cover, £170 premium and £50 excess. Why he could quote that to start is anyone's guess. I don't really like that 'we will match someone else's price' behaviour, I think people should offer the best price they can if they want your custom but I went with them anyway as I'm getting a bit nervous without any coverage and I'm not sure if the tracker would be a condition precedent to the first policy.

    Anyway, insurance is a con, and they make it up as they go along. If I could I'd go with NFU as they are a mutual and I've good experience of their cost (a bit more than average) and their service (much better than average) but they wont do a classic policy without a normal policy with them.

    What do people think of the level of agreed value (its yet to be confirmed)? I Iooked about and found 88 Series 3's from 700 quid projects to £23k minters. If worst came to worst I'd like to be able to cover my costs (currently £5.5k) and some of my time (oh god), but also put myself into the same position. I definitely saw some that were comparable to hat mine will be for £8-12k but these were advertised prices rather than sale prices. Any thoughts welcome.
     
  13. rob1miles

    rob1miles Well-Known Member

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    Re flashers - I think the Bosch round thing is a flasher unit, could be a hazard one, you'll need to check the part numbers. Relays are usually square so if you need a realy (you may do) you will need another one. The hazard switch looks like the type that is used on older vehicles and switches over the indicators to hazards so you may have enough parts. Google the part number then google it with "wiring" and "images", you may pull up a cicuit.
     
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  14. Stretch

    Stretch Well-Known Member

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    I think you have to play the game with the insurance companies to do what you can to protect the time and effort you've spent so far.

    I think it is best to go down the agreed value route. You have a much better chance of getting some help in the event of the unthinkable.
     
  15. rob1miles

    rob1miles Well-Known Member

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    Absolutley get agreed value!! I am in the process of a claim on my 26yr old Merc, agreed vlaue repairs approved at £4k, if it wasn't agreed value I'd get the lowest sale price at auction, about £600. Tha accident wasn't my fault but without agreed value I'd loose big time.
     
  16. Rubins4

    Rubins4 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'm all for an agreed value, it was just the level I was after a steer on.

    What sort of Merc Rob? My wedding car was a 190e :D
     
  17. ciderman

    ciderman Active Member

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    NFU???? 2 years ago I moved from them and am saving almost 2k a year..........
     
  18. rob1miles

    rob1miles Well-Known Member

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    A 300TD, 1990 - dual fuel - veg and deisel. Agreer value £4k.
    You see anoterh post from me on agreed value as I am a big fans and have ben agreed valueing my cars for some years. Do some web searches to get a realistic replacement costs, do a rough check on what you've spent and try to get a compromise figure. For a series you are in the 3-10k (or more if its really nice) kind of range. Talk to the insurers and find out where the primum jumps are in the value range, I was suprised by how wide they are - 2 -5K in the same premium, but it makes sense when you think classic cars go from £500 to £500,000
     
  19. Stretch

    Stretch Well-Known Member

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    I've got a 190E if you'd like to buy one!

    Insurance:-

    In Holland they use a system where you can get an independent valuation which then means the agreed value really is fixed. You have to pay someone to come and drink your coffee and kick your tyres but then there's no hassle on the money front at least if the worst happens.

    I have heard of situations in the UK where people have tried it on - say it is worth 10K - only when an assessor goes to see the wreck is it obviously nowhere near that money...

    ...I don't know if independent valuation is possible / done but I reckon every little thumb screw needs to be done to avoid the "it is only business" BS from insurance companies.
     
  20. Webley1991

    Webley1991 Well-Known Member

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    Nice job on those wheels. Mine are on the list of things that need doing.

    I assume you brush painted them as you were doing it inside your house?
     
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