Suspension lift info please

Hi I have decided to re new my new/old defender lift kit. I'm going to do a 2" lift using one of the terrafirma kits. I've just waxoyld the chassis so am replacing all associated parts including mounts and hard wear . I need help as I'm confused about the -2 " or +2" front turrets??? What's the difference and reasons for the two sizes...I'm tempted to just buy the +2" but wanted your input first!!!
Many thanks for any help and advice in advance ;-) cheers Rob

If you're getting +2" springs and +2" shocks you don't need the + or - shock turrets, just standard size. I'd suggest you check your brake line as extended brake lines might be needed, but many get away with a simple re-positioning of the mounting brackets. If you plan on doing future mods, buy +4" brake lines for future-proofing!!

The different size turrets are used, for instance, when you buy only +2" springs and want to lower the standard shocks a tad to allow more droop, the +2" for when you have say +2" springs and +4" shocks to 'even out' the disparity in sizes.

You can, obviously, fit -2" turrets with +2" springs and shocks to get more droop, but you also then need extended bump stops, extended brake lines and might need to think more about the props binding maybe or other unwanted side effects.

I have a 2 inch lift with -2 turrets but I am using standard shocks

Thanks for the info...options galore then! So basically if I bought a terrafirma 2" lift kit I would buy standard replacement turrets to achieve a straight forward 2" lift( obviously checking brake lines long enough) .
But if I wanted to lift using standard landrover shocks then I would use -2" turrets to achieve this?

Would a 2" lift require me to get the extended bump stops fitted?

yes to your first post and yes to the second

Paul D said:

If you're getting +2" springs and +2" shocks you don't need the + or - shock turrets, just standard size. I'd suggest you check your brake line as extended brake lines might be needed, but many get away with a simple re-positioning of the mounting brackets. If you plan on doing future mods, buy +4" brake lines for future-proofing!!

The different size turrets are used, for instance, when you buy only +2" springs and want to lower the standard shocks a tad to allow more droop, the +2" for when you have say +2" springs and +4" shocks to 'even out' the disparity in sizes.

You can, obviously, fit -2" turrets with +2" springs and shocks to get more droop, but you also then need extended bump stops, extended brake lines and might need to think more about the props binding maybe or other unwanted side effects.

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Just out of curiosity and possibly looking to the future if I was to go down the challenge level of suspension would I need the +2" rear mounts and +2" front turrets to use with +5" lift kit? What grade springs should I get if I still wanted to use on road...would the vehicle still be road legal more importantly? What other problems would I need to overcome ?

djrobot said:

Just out of curiosity and possibly looking to the future if I was to go down the challenge level of suspension would I need the +2" rear mounts and +2" front turrets to use with +5" lift kit?

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Yes.

djrobot said:

What grade springs should I get if I still wanted to use on road...would the vehicle still be road legal more importantly? What other problems would I need to overcome ?

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Should be road legal, mine is ..

Dunno, depends on what else is fitted and how you use it.

I have +5" shocks with +2" mounts and +2" HD springs at the rear, with Adrenalne trailing arms, which give immense droop so had to add in relocation cones to stop springs falling out, and I mounted the springs to the bodywork end and the cones on the axle which worked best for me. I would doubt I'd have been happy with +5" shocks if I'd stuck with stock arms etc. I originally had +3" springs that were too stiff and simply didn't work, so dropped down to +2's which now work brilliantly.

At the front I stayed with only +2" shocks and springs which also work well together with standard turrets. The +3" springs I had didn't work at all, so again, they were swapped back to the +2's. I stayed with +2's 'cos I can't afford wide angle props or castor corrected radius arms or the more exotic suspension fittings to compensate for larger lifts, so it's a compromise between lifting and reliability.

The longer you make the suspension the more you need 'stuff' to allow the suspension to work well without breaking other stuff, there isn't a simple 'buy this, fit that' answer.

Paul D said:

Yes.



Should be road legal, mine is ..

Dunno, depends on what else is fitted and how you use it.

I have +5" shocks with +2" mounts and +2" HD springs at the rear, with Adrenalne trailing arms, which give immense droop so had to add in relocation cones to stop springs falling out, and I mounted the springs to the bodywork end and the cones on the axle which worked best for me. I would doubt I'd have been happy with +5" shocks if I'd stuck with stock arms etc. I originally had +3" springs that were too stiff and simply didn't work, so dropped down to +2's which now work brilliantly.

At the front I stayed with only +2" shocks and springs which also work well together with standard turrets. The +3" springs I had didn't work at all, so again, they were swapped back to the +2's. I stayed with +2's 'cos I can't afford wide angle props or castor corrected radius arms or the more exotic suspension fittings to compensate for larger lifts, so it's a compromise between lifting and reliability.

The longer you make the suspension the more you need 'stuff' to allow the suspension to work well without breaking other stuff, there isn't a simple 'buy this, fit that' answer.

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Thanks for that info fella...I'm getting a far better understanding of how to sort parts.
One more question: I actually have a set of castor corrected radius and trailing arms I bought off mate they are 6 degree which is why I thought about going down full challenge setup? I know wide angle props would be needed but given that if assume I would then fit +2" front turrets and +5 shocks up front ?

I don't really know.

I reckon 6 degree is too much if you use the +2" turrets up front .. the reason you use +2 is to 'take up' the 2" of extra upward movement from the +5" shocks, so the droop is only effectively +3", which usually only needs 3 degree caster correction, and which is enough to possibly not require relocation cones, though mine does! Same at rear.

Aftermarket corrected arms front and rear almost certainly have slight offsets at the axle end to allow much more droop to the axle, so it'd be a case of sucking it and seeing what happens and adapting/modifying to suit I'm afraid.

Just changing to the Adrenaline rear arms on mine gave maybe an extra 12 - 16" movement at the hub centre from stock ... the following pic is with new arms, +5" shocks, +2" mounts and +3" VHD springs .. but no tyres, obviously to drag anything further down, or push up from t'other side .. The shocks were limiting travel at this point, before I fitted the shocks the hubs dropped to the floor and could have gone much further down ... but I don't have a pic of that.



I had to re-make the relocation cones to suit, making the spring hang from above rather than being mounted on the axle ..



I've since gone to just +2" springs, much more compliant, much softer than the +3's and generate way more grip ..

Don't forget that getting more movement is nowhere near the end, you need to check tyre rub, turning circles, brake pipes, what happens when you need to change a wheel and jack off the body for instance, all sorts of crap gets thrown up when you go to longer travel stuff .. Have fun ..

Thanks for your help and the photos are realy useful...do you have any of front setup? Cheers rob

Sorry no, nothing special, standard turrets, +2" springs, +2" shocks, works well despite not having either caster corrected arms, wide angle props, or spring relocators .. nice and simple! I do have +4" longer brake lines though, plans were to add more when i can afford it and +4 were same as +2" lines ..

Paul D said:

Sorry no, nothing special, standard turrets, +2" springs, +2" shocks, works well despite not having either caster corrected arms, wide angle props, or spring relocators .. nice and simple! I do have +4" longer brake lines though, plans were to add more when i can afford it and +4 were same as +2" lines ..

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Yeah I just bought 150mm extended brake lines to future proof. I was thinking of going down +2 turrets and +5 shocks with +2 hd springs at front so it's like +3 lift all round and use all same shocks...easier for spares .
What you think of the Gwyn Lewis challenge kit for mounts etc?
Also regarding your rear setup with relocation cones at bottom...I have cones with little hook on...would these still work at bottom or would the hook actuall foul and cause problems mounted inverted?
Cheers last question I promise lol

djrobot said:

Yeah I just bought 150mm extended brake lines to future proof. I was thinking of going down +2 turrets and +5 shocks with +2 hd springs at front so it's like +3 lift all round and use all same shocks...easier for spares .
What you think of the Gwyn Lewis challenge kit for mounts etc?
Also regarding your rear setup with relocation cones at bottom...I have cones with little hook on...would these still work at bottom or would the hook actuall foul and cause problems mounted inverted?
Cheers last question I promise lol

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Dont go HD springs if you want flex, which by +5 shocks I assume you do.

No they only work from the top

200tdi ayre said:

Dont go HD springs if you want flex, which by +5 shocks I assume you do.

No they only work from the top

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Cheers for the advice! I'm new to suspension fetteling as you can tell...I only thought HD springs as the vehicle will need to be road legal and safe...it will never be doing much more than local pottering about so I thought why not go the whole hog so to speak ;-)

As Ayresie says, I'm not sure mine are actually HD springs .. they're so much more compliant than the +3's, though I do carry a fair bit of kit too.

djrobot said:

Cheers for the advice! I'm new to suspension fetteling as you can tell...I only thought HD springs as the vehicle will need to be road legal and safe...it will never be doing much more than local pottering about so I thought why not go the whole hog so to speak ;-)

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Hd gives you a higher spring rate so takes more weight to compress the same length as a softer spring in laymans terms which means when you're flexing they will not compress as easily as softer springs so will not follow the ground as smoothly, crossaxles are more difficult etc

HD doesnt mean better quality

Oh by the way who makes the extreme rear shock mount used by Mark Evans on 'a 4x4 is born' ? Any links to the product would be great ;-)

djrobot said:

Oh by the way who makes the extreme rear shock mount used by Mark Evans on 'a 4x4 is born' ? Any links to the product would be great ;-)

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Terrafirma I think from memory.

I used these ..

LAND ROVER LONG TRAVEL REAR CHALLENGE SHOCK MOUNTS +5 | eBay