Stubborn front wishbone bolt.

Last year I bought a 2003 Freelander 1 1.8. The front brakes and lower suspension arms were past it and I planned to replace the lot this spring. For about 6 weeks I have been spraying all the bolts with penetrating oil and last week went round losening and tightening all the fastenings. There was one I could not budge and when I started doing the job it was that one I could not move. It is one of the 2 rear wishbone bush mounting bolts on the lh side. When I remove the outer bolt it is possible to move the housing slightly so it seems that the bolt has siezed and not been over tightened. It is so long I doubt if heat would get to that area, Spray definately hasn`t. Whacking with a lump hammer hasn`t worked. An induction heater might do the job if left on long enough but I am afraid of scorching something else and a gas flame is too dangerous. I have thought of cutting the bolt head off, taking off the housing which might give me about 2-3 cm of bolt to get some plumbers clamps on and leaving it under tension for a few hours. What if that bolt breaks in the channel, what then? Is there a removable bung under the carpet that lets me spray the thing or could there be room to get an induction heater down in the hole and attack the bolt from the top, while getting at it from below. The head is starting to be a bit chewed so I am hoping that someone out there has some good ideas. Many Thanks.

If your talking about the blind bolts the secure the large alloy bosh housing to the front box section/floor strengthener, then you can access the back of the bolts. There is a large hole in the box section near the alloy bush housing, which you can use to direct a spray at the back of those bolts. Spraying from below is pretty pointless, as the bolts are so long, sprayed fluid is unlikely to get to the threaded section.

Make sure you use a 6 sided socket too, as those are less likely to damage the bolt head.

Nodge68 said:

If your talking about the blind bolts the secure the large alloy bosh housing to the front box section/floor strengthener, then you can access the back of the bolts. There is a large hole in the box section near the alloy bush housing, which you can use to direct a spray at the back of those bolts. Spraying from below is pretty pointless, as the bolts are so long, sprayed fluid is unlikely to get to the threaded section.

Make sure you use a 6 sided socket too, as those are less likely to damage the bolt head.

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Thanks for your reply and advice. Yes, they are the bolts in question.I drenched everywhere with graphite penetrating oil which has helped many times. Sprayed through every opening and hole I could find in those areas starting more than 2 weeks before I started the job. The bush and housing was rusted solid onto to the rh arm so I ordered 2 housings with bushes and 2 spare bolts anticipating the same trouble with the lh. As i have a new housing I could cut the lh housing off and I could get a better grip on the bolt and try to tighten and untighten it. Drastic and lots of work but if it won`t budge...

Five weeks and an overflowing swearbox later I finally removed that stubborn stud. Didn`t take me five weeks to do that job only 2 days but from start to finish including waiting for parts for that and two other jobs. Before I started on the bolt a hose burst, lost lots of water but the temp gauge only showed normal. Wasn`t until I parked in a cloud of steam that there was any sign off something wrong. Not even a smell of antifreeze, and yes there was antifreeze in the system.Not knowing how reliable the old hoses were I thought I could save time and ordered a complete set of hoses, thermostat and temp. sensor from a company in Denmark instead of a UK coy. They promised that my parts would arive in 5 days. While waiting for those I decided to change the front right lower suspension arm, disc, cylinder and caliper, pads, flexible hoses and one metal brake pipe. Two weeks after ordering the hose I found out that the Danish coy. had ordered those parts from the UK !! and that my parts plus all the other customers parts were in a container that had been sent to Germany and was stuck there somewhere. In the meantime we had 2 weeks of torrential rain and no work was done. When it stopped raining I finished the RH susp. and brakes, fitted all the hoses and temp. sensor, refilled the system and started the engine , no leaks and I am keeping my fingers crossed that the cylinder liners have not been affected in any way. How long does it take before you find out? THe stubborn stud has its head removed and I had to drill it out of the bush housing as galvanic or metal to metal corrosion had cemented the two together as if they were one part. I greased the new studs with aluminium grease and put the grease between the new housing and the body as there had been galvanic corrosion there too. I had even cut a hole in the floor to get to the stud and there was no sign of rust or any of the penetrating oil that I had drowned everthing else with so it seems that that kept nut and stud is sealed away hermetically. Everything has now been put back together and bled and tested but a new problem showed up. The tickover is twice as fast as normal, there is a high pitched buzzing from the idle air control valve, which has always been there so I don`t know if that is normal or not, when driving when I want to keep the car at the even speed there is a lot of jerking and misfiring until I accelerate. When I want to stay at any speed that happens. Also the downhill light comes on and the temp guage indicates a cold engine. When the downhill light goes off the temp gauge shows normal. I removed and cleaned and lubricated the IAC 3 times, each time there was an improvement but it slowly started to play up again. I read somewhere that you can switch the ignition on and press the accelerator 5 times for the ECU to recalibrate itself after changing anything like a temp sensor.. Didn`t help. I am thinking about replacing the IAC but are there any other tricks or parts that should be cleaned or tested first. When I first bought this car the downhill light came on and the temp guage dropped to nought. It would return to normal if I stopped the car, switched the ignition off for 15 secs and started again. THat problem went away but has now come back again. It is now 2 am over here and I hope that one or even more of you imsomniacs out there can help. Is it possible to fit a proper temp gauge into the system somewhere as the standard Freelanders temp guage is almost not worth having. In the meantime I will be driving my 100% non digital 1982 Mitsubishi Colt with 600000km on the clock, one engine, one owner, me, and not having warning lights flashing at me unexpectedly causing dry mouth and palpitations. I hope this has been some interesting early morning reading and perhaps some of you have been able to fall asleep while reading it.

I guess you should check for a leak in the area where the idle control valve is. It sounds like air is getting in somewhere else.

Alibro said:

I guess you should check for a leak in the area where the idle control valve is. It sounds like air is getting in somewhere else.

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Many thanks for your suggestion. The top left bolt hole was broken off by a rusting bolt which expanded and cracked the plastic. I will check there again for a possible hairline crack that penetrates the valve body.. The first time I removed the valve I found the o ring was split, that was replaced and other hoses were checked. I am curious as to why it behaves after cleaning for about 30mins then starts causing the hesitating. If while the valve was off the manifold and ignition on, I plugged in the valve what could or should I expect to see happen? I wondered if fitting a new temp sensor would have had any effect because at the same time as the engine started hesitating the downhill light started coming on and the temp gauge needle stopped halfway between cold and normal. When the downhill light goes off the needle rises up to normal. Also when the engine was warm after starting it for the first time for 3 weeks the tickover was up from about 800 to about 1500rpm.

Buttonman said:

Many thanks for your suggestion. The top left bolt hole was broken off by a rusting bolt which expanded and cracked the plastic. I will check there again for a possible hairline crack that penetrates the valve body.. The first time I removed the valve I found the o ring was split, that was replaced and other hoses were checked. I am curious as to why it behaves after cleaning for about 30mins then starts causing the hesitating. If while the valve was off the manifold and ignition on, I plugged in the valve what could or should I expect to see happen? I wondered if fitting a new temp sensor would have had any effect because at the same time as the engine started hesitating the downhill light started coming on and the temp gauge needle stopped halfway between cold and normal. When the downhill light goes off the needle rises up to normal. Also when the engine was warm after starting it for the first time for 3 weeks the tickover was up from about 800 to about 1500rpm.

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It's probably a hair line crack opening up when hot.
IIRC the 1.8K series HDC light will come on at around 5mph if the throttle cable has been tightened at the throttle body. Did you adjust the throttle cable?

Alibro said:

It's probably a hair line crack opening up when hot.
IIRC the 1.8K series HDC light will come on at around 5mph if the throttle cable has been tightened at the throttle body. Did you adjust the throttle cable?

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Good idea about the expansion. Next time it is hot I will spray with thin oil that might go in any cracks, remove it, wipe clean and powder it with corn starch or something similar to draw out the oil from any cracks. When I first bought this Freelander I went around it tightening, cleaning, adjusting etc. The accelerator cable I did tighten as I felt it was slack but no lights came on. Since then I read about having about 12 mm slack and went back and loosened it. Checked it just now and it was still about 12 mm

I don't know about 12mm but I had the issue of the HDC light coming on at around 5mph after I removed slack at the throttle body. If yours is still doing it then loosen it a bit more.

There needs to be able 10mm of cable slack, measured at the pedal. So the pedal needs to move about 10mm before pulling on the cable. This is to ensure the pedal at rest sensor sees the pedal off the stop, before the throttle potentiometer measures a change in resistance.

Alibro said:

It's probably a hair line crack opening up when hot.
IIRC the 1.8K series HDC light will come on at around 5mph if the throttle cable has been tightened at the throttle body. Did you adjust the throttle cable?

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I did adjust it as I am used to a less slack cable but it has been reset to a slackness of about 12 mm.

Nodge68 said:

There needs to be able 10mm of cable slack, measured at the pedal. So the pedal needs to move about 10mm before pulling on the cable. This is to ensure the pedal at rest sensor sees the pedal off the stop, before the throttle potentiometer measures a change in resistance.

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Thanks. There is play or slackness of about 12 mm. I am only adjusting or replacing one thing at a time so that I know what worked so I will be going for a drive tomorrow to test this step. Do you know if an auxillary temp gauge can be fitted? I don`t trust the original.

Buttonman said:

Thanks. There is play or slackness of about 12 mm. I am only adjusting or replacing one thing at a time so that I know what worked so I will be going for a drive tomorrow to test this step. Do you know if an auxillary temp gauge can be fitted? I don`t trust the original.

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I don't know about a temp gauge but IIRC some folk put a coolant level warning light in K series cars. Knowing if the coolant is low will probably give you the info you want.
I'm sure there was a thread about it here somewhere in the past or it may have been in a MG/Rover forum.

As Ali said, go with a coolant level sensor, which is all you'd need.
The standard gauge gives you the information you need.
It tells you the engine is below correct running temperature, is within the normal running temperature range, and is over the normal running range.
Anything other than that is just likely to alarm you unnecessarily.

Nodge68 said:

As Ali said, go with a coolant level sensor, which is all you'd need.
The standard gauge gives you the information you need.
It tells you the engine is below correct running temperature, is within the normal running temperature range, and is over the normal running range.
Anything other than that is just likely to alarm you unnecessarily.

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Thanks to you and Ali for all your advice. Before I went to pick up my wife today I made sure there was enough slack in the cable but the downhill light was there from the start and I drove far enough to make sure the engine was at running temp. However, after a restart it wasn`t there all the way home and the IACV was behaving too, that I will leave alone until it starts playing up again then I will test for possible hairline cracks and leaks. The tickover was about 400 revs too fast but went down when I blipped the throttle but was slightly uneven at between 750 and 850 revs.. As for the temp gauge, being old school I am used to gauges and I find the info they give me reassuring, it is the standard one that alarms me plus a several flashing lights and whistles ! I see that later Freelander models have coolant level indicators, this one doesn`t, I can try to find an aftermarket part. As for an auxilliary temp. gauge, I suddenly thought of an inline engine heater, they are used a lot up here, then why not an inline temp. gauge. Find the right coolant hose, cut in two, insert an adaptor, join together again, tighten 2 jubilee clips, screw in the sensor, create an independant electric circuit, get a power supply perhaps direct from the battery so the Freelander system does not have a nervous breakdown, thread some cables through a suitable hole in the bulkhead and mount a gauge of ones choice where you want in front of you. I am alarmed by the gauge in this car as it stayed at normal even when the engine was overheating through loss of coolant.

Buttonman said:

I am alarmed by the gauge in this car as it stayed at normal even when the engine was overheating through loss of coolant.

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I know what you are saying, but the factory gauge is deliberately made to prevent owners from worrying.
The normal engine running temperature is anything between 76°C and 112°C. At 113°C the gauge will swim to the hot section of the gauge, and the high temperature light will come on.
So although it was low on coolant, the engine wasn't hot enough to trigger the high temperature warning, which is good and not so good, depending on your point of view.
However over the last 20 years, I've found the LR (inherited from Rover) stabilised gauge a good compromise, giving just enough information, without alarming the driver unnecessarily.
A coolant level sensor is a really good idea though, and very easy to install.

Nodge68 said:

I know what you are saying, but the factory gauge is deliberately made to prevent owners from worrying.
The normal engine running temperature is anything between 76°C and 112°C. At 113°C the gauge will swim to the hot section of the gauge, and the high temperature light will come on.
So although it was low on coolant, the engine wasn't hot enough to trigger the high temperature warning, which is good and not so good, depending on your point of view.
However over the last 20 years, I've found the LR (inherited from Rover) stabilised gauge a good compromise, giving just enough information, without alarming the driver unnecessarily.
A coolant level sensor is a really good idea though, and very easy to install.

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Agree that the idea is good because as soon as the ig. sw. is turned it will check and tell the driver something is wrong. There is no warning light mentioned in the handbook of this model so I will probably have to rig up my own system. Not sure that the engine was not hot enough though, could hear coolant bubbling away when I looked. That is why I am a bit concerned about the sleeves. Had driven about 20km after hearing a new sound, should have stopped and looked. PS. Just seen a guide from Lord Hippo, May 6. 2014 about how to do this job, bookmarked it for future reference.