Strong crank but no start

Hey Landy Fam...

Kind of hoping someone here has had or knows someone who has had the same problem I now find myself with on my 2010 Freelander 2 2.2 TD4 HSE Auto.

I was at a mate's house about 35km from where I live (No issues on my way there), and we decided to nip out to the shop up the road. Got into my car, reversed into the road and my Freelander stopped dead. Mighty strange, so I pop her into park and hit the start button. Engine cranks long and hard for around 10 seconds and doesn't start, so I try again, and again and start getting really worried (I'm stuck in the middle of the road, thankfully a quiet one).

I get out, scratch my head and pop the bonnet. Everything looks, sounds and smells OK. More head scratching ensues. I check battery voltage even though she is cranking strongly, battery is just fine so I get in and try start again... Nothing...

Call the rest of the mates and I figure out I can still shift into neutral (everything is normal except it doesn't catch when cranking) and we push her off the road. I plug in my trusty el cheapo OBD scan tool and Torque tells me everything is fine, except for a warning I've known about for a few months for "Glow plug heater circuit A" which i will be replacing shortly, parts are damned expensive over here.

Puzzled, I take to Google and see the no start issue is likely a fuel filter. It's a Saturday evening so nothing I can do about it even if I wanted to so I left the car at the mates place and had it towed to mine this morning.

With much information gleaned from the various forums and from YouTube, I set out to check the fuel filter. Disconnecting the fuel lines on each side reveals the presence of diesel. Loosening the pipes on top of the injectors also reveals the fuel is flowing, a quick test crank proves this when diesel jets out.

More googling and I don't get much further. I have removed the airflow sensor and cleaned it with electrical cleaner as well just for good measure although a faulty sensor would inhibit performance not cause the engine to not start completely.

Cranking the engine again and still won't catch. Second time I try cranking it I get a message on the dash display saying Reduced Engine Performance so I decide to plug the OBD tool in again and I cringe.

Amongst a whole load of other minor/random fault codes unrelated to engine or transmission, I now have a code for the crankshaft position sensor, the airflow sensor, another one that says one of my cylinders is faulty and a few others. I will attach pics taken of the codes to this post if I can get it right.

Question is, why were these codes not showing yesterday? Is it possible that I'm getting some of them as a result of the engine not starting or are they actual faults? I'm going to get a new airflow sensor as well as a crankshaft sensor tomorrow, just hoping to avoid more costly repairs being needed down the road as well.

Oh, and if things weren't already strange, my power windows stopped working about a week ago. The controls on each door have stopped working (as did the rear window child lock button on the drivers side) but the front passenger side control still works, as does opening/closing the windows from the key fob by holding down the lock/unlock button, which still operates all four windows as if nothing was wrong.

Any insight or advice on the above would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance

Part one of the fault code saga

Part two (am posting from my phone which will only allow one file per post, sorry for separate replies for each image)

Figured out the attachment issue. More codes attached

A better man will follow shortly Nodge. But first you had no problems getting there no hic ups. Only when you reverse off the pathway I assume. By all the information gleamed this seems to be throwing the computer inside into a wobbly. The issue sounds more the gearbox being an Auto and sensors failure hence one of your recording showing an error. This could have sent the computer to prevent any motion until fix. Remove the battery terminal for half an hour to clear the computer an see if this resets the system. Sounds like from the gearbox sensor failure. As i say the Man of fountain of knowledge Nodge will help.

saxavordian said:

A better man will follow shortly Nodge. But first you had no problems getting there no hic ups. Only when you reverse off the pathway I assume. By all the information gleamed this seems to be throwing the computer inside into a wobbly. The issue sounds more the gearbox being an Auto and sensors failure hence one of your recording showing an error. This could have sent the computer to prevent any motion until fix. Remove the battery terminal for half an hour to clear the computer an see if this resets the system. Sounds like from the gearbox sensor failure. As i say the Man of fountain of knowledge Nodge will help.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. You are correct, no issues getting there at all. Only happened when I reversed out. I put the car into reverse, got out into the road and as I applied brake to stop it died. I am not convinced it is gearbox related at all, as I was still able to shift from park to neutral etc without issues so that we could push the car out the road and again when we loaded her onto the flatbed to bring her home.

I had the battery out for over 3 hours today whilst doing my troubleshooting, I had it on charge to make up for all the cranking yesterday as the battery had dropped to 11.9v (it's an 80ah AGM).

I refitted the battery again after charging and exactly the same thing happens. It cranks hard and strong, just doesnt catch. I filled up the tank with diesel in case it was a fuel sender issue, but that made no difference. No fault codes then when I checked, but today, as you can see in my photos, it was mayhem. As I mentioned before, I have seen cases with other vehicles where a failure to start will trigger multiple untlrelated faults that simply vanish when the vehicle once again manages to start so I'm not sure how many of these that I see on my vehicle I should take seriously. Remember this car has performed brilliantly with no problems for years. I volunteer with our local community policing forum (similar to police reservists) and regularly rely on my right foot to get me somewhere in a hurry, and up until yesterday she has always been up to the task, no hesitation, no shudders or hesitation, always very responsive.

I am definitely stumped here, will be getting new crank and maf sensor tomorrow if my local guys have stock, I just hope that solves the problem. Also hoping the gentleman you mentioned, Nodge, is able to shed some light on things

Sudden engine shutdown without codes is sometimes difficult to trace.
My first choice would be throttle body failure. It's well known that the gears wear and strip, leaving the air intake to the engine completely blocked. Can you hear it making noises when you cycle the ignition?

Second with be crank position sensor failure, although that normally fails progressively, causing misfires for some time before total failure.

As its a Diseasel, perhaps if you print this and show it to the car it will buck its ideas up?

I do hope it turns out to be something simple and inexpensive to fix. LR's are wonderful when they are working and absolute devils when they aren't.

DanClarke said:

As its a Diseasel, perhaps if you print this and show it to the car it will buck its ideas up?

I do hope it turns out to be something simple and inexpensive to fix. LR's are wonderful when they are working and absolute devils when they aren't.
View attachment 240473View attachment 240474

Click to expand...

We are replacing the crankshaft position sensor on Thursday (Tomorrow aka Wednesday is a public holiday over here) and we shall see from there. Fingers crossed!

OddballZA said:

We are replacing the crankshaft position sensor on Thursday (Tomorrow aka Wednesday is a public holiday over here) and we shall see from there. Fingers crossed!

Click to expand...

Did you ever resolve the problem? - My daughter has got a similar problem but it died on the motorway (09 plate) - it spluttered to a halt and wouldn't restart. Dash flashing like a Christmas tree.

This is what we have done to prove the fault and try to fix the problem without any success:-

New battery (the other was old and the voltage dropped right off with all the cranking),
New starter motor as it wouldn't turn consistently.
New Crank sensor.
Good earths all round,
Good supply to the ECM,
Good pulse from Crank sensor to the ECM (measured with a 'scope),
Pump in tank pumping, more fuel added (>1/4 tank),
Fuel at filter input and you can see low pressure pump is pulling fuel (and now air!) through.
No fuel to the injectors,
No signal from the ECM to the injectors,
12v supply and modulated signal to the VCV, correct resistance across the VCV,
12V Supply and modulated signal to the PCV, correct resistance across the PCV.
Continuity from the sensors to the ECU connectors.

The only issue we have found is that there is no 5V to the Fuel rail pressure sensor (there is a good ground). As this comes direct from the ECM, could this be a fault within the ECM or is there a deliberate "action" where the ECM will drop the voltage to the pressure sensor to prevent the engine starting due to some other starting conditions not being met?

We don't want the cost and hassle in changing and reprogramming the ECM if it is a simple "command" to the ECM which is missing which "turns off" the pressure sensor.

Any ideas and suggestions (other than the zip firelighters as above ;-) ) would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Ian

Easysteam said:

Did you ever resolve the problem? - My daughter has got a similar problem but it died on the motorway (09 plate) - it spluttered to a halt and wouldn't restart. Dash flashing like a Christmas tree.

This is what we have done to prove the fault and try to fix the problem without any success:-

New battery (the other was old and the voltage dropped right off with all the cranking),
New starter motor as it wouldn't turn consistently.
New Crank sensor.
Good earths all round,
Good supply to the ECM,
Good pulse from Crank sensor to the ECM (measured with a 'scope),
Pump in tank pumping, more fuel added (>1/4 tank),
Fuel at filter input and you can see low pressure pump is pulling fuel (and now air!) through.
No fuel to the injectors,
No signal from the ECM to the injectors,
12v supply and modulated signal to the VCV, correct resistance across the VCV,
12V Supply and modulated signal to the PCV, correct resistance across the PCV.
Continuity from the sensors to the ECU connectors.

The only issue we have found is that there is no 5V to the Fuel rail pressure sensor (there is a good ground). As this comes direct from the ECM, could this be a fault within the ECM or is there a deliberate "action" where the ECM will drop the voltage to the pressure sensor to prevent the engine starting due to some other starting conditions not being met?

We don't want the cost and hassle in changing and reprogramming the ECM if it is a simple "command" to the ECM which is missing which "turns off" the pressure sensor.

Any ideas and suggestions (other than the zip firelighters as above ;-) ) would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Ian

Click to expand...

In my case replacing the crank position sensor and throwing a new ancillary belt at the motor solved the problem. I also decided to tackle the sluggish cold start issue which always led to stupid HDC warnings and added extra grounds from batt neg to alternator case and from engine block to body as well. I run a massive aftermarket sound system as well, so had plenty 0 Gauge OFC wire lying around which did the trick nicely. Now she turns over like a kitten having her tummy scratched at first push of the start button.

What I did learn though from my experience, which might help you somewhat, is that the ECM will not supply power to injectors or fuel rail if it has picked up any problems that could break the motor even further. The best advice I could give you now is to go get yourself a cheap and nasty ELM327 Bluetooth ODB2 scanner, then download and activate a trial of Garage Pro from the Play store. That's what helped me pinpoint the cause of my woes, and is definitely worth the few pounds (rands in the case of this Saffer) that it costs.

Easysteam said:

Did you ever resolve the problem? - My daughter has got a similar problem but it died on the motorway (09 plate) - it spluttered to a halt and wouldn't restart. Dash flashing like a Christmas tree.

This is what we have done to prove the fault and try to fix the problem without any success:-

New battery (the other was old and the voltage dropped right off with all the cranking),
New starter motor as it wouldn't turn consistently.
New Crank sensor.
Good earths all round,
Good supply to the ECM,
Good pulse from Crank sensor to the ECM (measured with a 'scope),
Pump in tank pumping, more fuel added (>1/4 tank),
Fuel at filter input and you can see low pressure pump is pulling fuel (and now air!) through.
No fuel to the injectors,
No signal from the ECM to the injectors,
12v supply and modulated signal to the VCV, correct resistance across the VCV,
12V Supply and modulated signal to the PCV, correct resistance across the PCV.
Continuity from the sensors to the ECU connectors.

The only issue we have found is that there is no 5V to the Fuel rail pressure sensor (there is a good ground). As this comes direct from the ECM, could this be a fault within the ECM or is there a deliberate "action" where the ECM will drop the voltage to the pressure sensor to prevent the engine starting due to some other starting conditions not being met?

We don't want the cost and hassle in changing and reprogramming the ECM if it is a simple "command" to the ECM which is missing which "turns off" the pressure sensor.

Any ideas and suggestions (other than the zip firelighters as above ;-) ) would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Ian

Click to expand...

Hi, do you have a code reader ? Depending on what more knowledgeable people than me say on here (in the way of codes)
I have a Foxwell NT530 reader,for all Jag/LR models & as you don't live to far from me I can pop it round sometime if it helps.

Easysteam said:

Did you ever resolve the problem? - My daughter has got a similar problem but it died on the motorway (09 plate) - it spluttered to a halt and wouldn't restart. Dash flashing like a Christmas tree.

This is what we have done to prove the fault and try to fix the problem without any success:-

New battery (the other was old and the voltage dropped right off with all the cranking),
New starter motor as it wouldn't turn consistently.
New Crank sensor.
Good earths all round,
Good supply to the ECM,
Good pulse from Crank sensor to the ECM (measured with a 'scope),
Pump in tank pumping, more fuel added (>1/4 tank),
Fuel at filter input and you can see low pressure pump is pulling fuel (and now air!) through.
No fuel to the injectors,
No signal from the ECM to the injectors,
12v supply and modulated signal to the VCV, correct resistance across the VCV,
12V Supply and modulated signal to the PCV, correct resistance across the PCV.
Continuity from the sensors to the ECU connectors.

The only issue we have found is that there is no 5V to the Fuel rail pressure sensor (there is a good ground). As this comes direct from the ECM, could this be a fault within the ECM or is there a deliberate "action" where the ECM will drop the voltage to the pressure sensor to prevent the engine starting due to some other starting conditions not being met?

We don't want the cost and hassle in changing and reprogramming the ECM if it is a simple "command" to the ECM which is missing which "turns off" the pressure sensor.

Any ideas and suggestions (other than the zip firelighters as above ;-) ) would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Ian

Click to expand...

Needs a code read, before replacing components.
Can you hear the throttle butterfly moving? It's on the bottom of the inlet manifold, and failure in the closed position is pretty common.

OddballZA said:

In my case replacing the crank position sensor and throwing a new ancillary belt at the motor solved the problem. I also decided to tackle the sluggish cold start issue which always led to stupid HDC warnings and added extra grounds from batt neg to alternator case and from engine block to body as well. I run a massive aftermarket sound system as well, so had plenty 0 Gauge OFC wire lying around which did the trick nicely. Now she turns over like a kitten having her tummy scratched at first push of the start button.

What I did learn though from my experience, which might help you somewhat, is that the ECM will not supply power to injectors or fuel rail if it has picked up any problems that could break the motor even further. The best advice I could give you now is to go get yourself a cheap and nasty ELM327 Bluetooth ODB2 scanner, then download and activate a trial of Garage Pro from the Play store. That's what helped me pinpoint the cause of my woes, and is definitely worth the few pounds (rands in the case of this Saffer) that it costs.

Click to expand...

Many thanks - the cheap and nasty reader is not showing anything of note so we have ordered a not so cheap and hopefully not nasty Jag/Landrover one. Thanks for your input and suggestion. Cheers Ian

Nodge68 said:

Needs a code read, before replacing components.
Can you hear the throttle butterfly moving? It's on the bottom of the inlet manifold, and failure in the closed position is pretty common.

Click to expand...

Hi, Many many thanks for your post and for the kind offer of loaning your reader. We have already bitten the bullet and ordered one which should be here tomorrow. Thanks also for the tip re the throttle butterfly - we have seen that commented a couple of times now and will be the next point of investigation. We believe the reader should also confirm its positions. Cheers, Ian