Strange clutch-slipping type behaviour

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Grrrrrr

Grrrrrr

Technician, Bodgit & Scarper Ltd
Full Member
Posts
18,969
Location
Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
Knew it was too good to last! 1995 2.5DT - manual.

Some strange behaviour when you put your foot to the floor: the revs race up faster than the motor can keep up, then drop back down and then everything seems to accelerate as it should. I've strapped my camara to the steering wheel and caught the offending behaviour, see:

Part 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By7n3F7TXDU8X01YRDVnQ0s1Wjg/view?usp=sharing

Part 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By7n3F7TXDU8LTBFcXNEcnotbkk/view?usp=sharing

It is almost as if the clutch is slipping but the clutch feels fine! I had the clutch out 12k miles ago and it was pretty much brand new so should be OK. It only does it when you floor it and the turbo cuts in. Normal driving and everything is, well, normal!

Not sure if this could be connected but a month or so back I swapped over the brake modulator. Obviously I had to bleed both the brakes and the clutch. When I first started bleeding the clutch the pedal stuck on the floor and had to be pulled back up but once I got the fluid through and the air out it was fine.

Any ideas, anyone?

Cheers,

J
 
Grrrrrr said:
Knew it was too good to last! 1995 2.5DT - manual.

Some strange behaviour when you put your foot to the floor: the revs race up faster than the motor can keep up, then drop back down and then everything seems to accelerate as it should. I've strapped my camara to the steering wheel and caught the offending behaviour, see:

Part 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By7n3F7TXDU8X01YRDVnQ0s1Wjg/view?usp=sharing

Part 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By7n3F7TXDU8LTBFcXNEcnotbkk/view?usp=sharing

It is almost as if the clutch is slipping but the clutch feels fine! I had the clutch out 12k miles ago and it was pretty much brand new so should be OK. It only does it when you floor it and the turbo cuts in. Normal driving and everything is, well, normal!

Not sure if this could be connected but a month or so back I swapped over the brake modulator. Obviously I had to bleed both the brakes and the clutch. When I first started bleeding the clutch the pedal stuck on the floor and had to be pulled back up but once I got the fluid through and the air out it was fine.

Any ideas, anyone?

Cheers,

J
Click to expand...

Was there a funny 'burnt' smell?

When was the fluids changed last, both hydraulic and gear oil ?
 
Grrrrrr said:
Oh yes, should have mentioned that. I was sniffing for all I was worth and couldn't smell anything untoward. Replaced all fluids in the summer: gearbox and transfer box and diffs.
Click to expand...

This may be of help:
1. Allow the fault to develop, long hot run.

2. Check for any air ingress, by looking at the clear tube leading to the fuel filter.

3. Check for any diesel being expelled from the leak-off Pipes.

4. Disconnect battery.

5. Remove each electrical terminal connected with injection system and clean. (This means all engine sensors, especially temperature sensors, crank sensors and so on.) Obviously anything which affects conductivity needs sorting. If everything is clean -

6. At this point you really need to put the vehicle on Test Book or similar computer program.

7. Most likely Fault Code is "Needle Lift Fault", which means:

8. Replace King Injector, that's the one with the electrical connection on - number 4 ? maybe (not sure on that bit) ...
 
jamesmartin said:
if the car speed doesnt seem to raise the same as engine feels it is your clutch slipping
Click to expand...

I was kind of hoping you wouldn't say that. :)

Just supposing I didn't bleed all the air out properly (and I'm grasping at straws here because I'm not too keen to pull it all apart again,) is there anyway that could affect it? Common sense seems to imply that would just stop the fork being pulled back and make getting into gear tricky but maybe not?

Maybe something else sticking?!!!
 
Dippypud said:
This may be of help:
1. Allow the fault to develop, long hot run.

2. Check for any air ingress, by looking at the clear tube leading to the fuel filter.

3. Check for any diesel being expelled from the leak-off Pipes.

4. Disconnect battery.

5. Remove each electrical terminal connected with injection system and clean. (This means all engine sensors, especially temperature sensors, crank sensors and so on.) Obviously anything which affects conductivity needs sorting. If everything is clean -

6. At this point you really need to put the vehicle on Test Book or similar computer program.

7. Most likely Fault Code is "Needle Lift Fault", which means:

8. Replace King Injector, that's the one with the electrical connection on - number 4 ? maybe (not sure on that bit) ...
Click to expand...

i think thats an answer for another fault:)
 
Grrrrrr said:
I was kind of hoping you wouldn't say that. :)

Just supposing I didn't bleed all the air out properly (and I'm grasping at straws here because I'm not too keen to pull it all apart again,) is there anyway that could affect it? Common sense seems to imply that would just stop the fork being pulled back and make getting into gear tricky but maybe not?

Maybe something else sticking?!!!
Click to expand...

you could see if cross shaft slave cylinder pushes against isnt stiff ie not releasing fully , but air in fluid wouldnt cause those symptoms just more difficult gear change, you can check by trying a stall test
 
I may not have been clear. The engine isn't stalling or slowing down. It is racing ahead and the car isn't keeping up. The gearbox note stays the same and no feel of wheel spinning but the engine revs are climbing like there's a loss of load to push. Then the revs slew back, seem to catch the car and everything accelerates as it should.

The films caught it although it doesn't look as dramatic as it felt in reality.
 
jamesmartin said:
you could see if cross shaft slave cylinder pushes against isnt stiff ie not releasing fully , but air in fluid wouldnt cause those symptoms just more difficult gear change, you can check by trying a stall test
Click to expand...

Yeah, my worst suspicions confirmed. Changes gear perfectly. I'll try getting underneath (if it ever stops raining) and give the slave cylinder shaft a little pull around after depressing the clutch: see what happens a few times.

How the chuff can a clutch go in 15k miles?! I know the missus doesn't exactly slot it into gear but she's never gone through a clutch before!
 
Mine did the same some time ago found leaky bleed off pipes diesel runing down bsck of engine fixed never had slip again worth a look
 
OK. That's a nice easy check. All bleed off pipes were replaced about a month ago together with the diesel filter so I guess I could have left something loose on reassembly.

Actually, when I did the brake modulator quite a bit of brake fluid leaked down the back. I hosed everything down afterwards with the hose-pipe but I wonder if any could have got in somewhere? Truly grasping at straws now!

Thanks for the thoughts chaps. Think it'll have to wait until next weekend now - although frankly I think it might end up waiting for warmer and longer days!
 
Contaminated clutch plate or sticking cross shaft/slave cylinder ? 2 ltrs of Coke poured into the bell housing used to clean oil off the clutch plate when I was looking after a rally car that had the rear oil seal leaking.
 
The pipes are abit of apain had afew goes at mine ended up cable tieing mine to seal them and stop them spliting a fiddle but not leaked since sorry dad spelling using phone with bad hand bloody dog bite
 
Coke? Bit acidic, no?

I'm not sure how the oil would get in to be honest - except maybe through the hole where the shaft goes through the side of the bell housing. I assume everything is fairly watertight what with all the breathers that come up the bulkhead?

Still, anything that prevents having to take that damn gearbox off again has got to be worth a try!
 
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