Clutch

Pingboy · Nov 2, 2023

Hi ,all
Clutch pedal on freelander2 2 2009 .Has dropped to the floor ,I can lift it back into position and it stays there etc .Touch jt and it drops the floor .Any advice please .
Car is currently in the garage and can't move it

Nodge68 · Nov 2, 2023

I'd be looking at the fluid level for a start. If the level is low, then look under the gearbox to see if there is fluid visible underneath or trapped on the sump guard.
If the latter, then the concentric slave has failed, requiring a replacement be fitted.

Pingboy · Nov 2, 2023

Hi Nodge68
Thanks for your reply will check it out . With it being in the garage not a lot of room on the nearside etc .Can get the bonnet up and have a look round etc .

Nodge68 · Nov 2, 2023

You won't need to get to the nearside, as the clutch is in the middle of the car, and the master reservoir is on the offside of the bulkhead.

Pingboy · Nov 2, 2023

OK I can get to the offside and the centre with the bonnet up . So will check the fluid .Silly question dies the brake reservoir service the clutch as well ? As only 2 reservoirs I an see are the brake and power steering etc .

Nodge68 · Nov 2, 2023

Pingboy said:
OK I can get to the offside and the centre with the bonnet up . So will check the fluid .Silly question dies the brake reservoir service the clutch as well ? As only 2 reservoirs I an see are the brake and power steering etc .

Yes the brake and clutch both share the brake reservoir.

Pingboy · Nov 2, 2023

Cheers, Nodge will check it out tomorrow and let
you know .

Pingboy · Nov 4, 2023

Pingboy said:
Cheers, Nodge will check it out tomorrow and let
you know .

Hi Nodge68
Apologies for the late reply , managed to check fluid in the reservoir and its full. No fluid in the foot Wells or under the car. Clutch pedal spring looks good etc .

Pingboy said:
Cheers, Nodge will check it out tomorrow and let
you know .

Hi Nodge68
Have managed to check the reservoir and it's full etc .No fluids in the foot Wells or under the car. Clutch soring looks good etc

krigepj · Nov 10, 2023

Hi

I'm also experiencing a very similar clutch problem.

First, let me tell you about my clutch issue. I've got a 2007 Freelander 2 2.2 Td4 SE with 260k Km on it.

I had a slave cylinder issue about 20k Km (2 years) ago, when the clutch pedal went to the floor and when I pulled it back it just went straight down to the floor. I looked under the engine and saw the brake fluid pouring out between the gearbox bell housing and the engine. I then looked at the service manual and found that the slave cylinder is combined in the thrust bearing. This immediately showed me that it was going to be a big job dropping the gearbox. So, I did the responsible thing and changed the dual mass flywheel, clutch plate, pressure plate and the thrust bearing, which is also the slave cylinder, all at the same time. This was a solve for the first clutch problem.

Now, I'm experiencing more or less the same issue. About a month back the clutch pedal started going soft and after a few days also went to the floor and as I pull it back up, it would just go down again. First this I thought is the slave again and looked under the engine for leaks. No leaks and the brake fluid level did not drop. Then it could not be the slave cylinder again as it is only replaced about 2 years ago.

So, I then replaced the master cylinder, which was another big job that I did not expect. Bleeded the entire clutch system after replacing the master cylinder and the clutch was working fairly good, but still some air in the system. I drove with it couple of days and kept bleeding the system and it just kept being a bit soft, thinking there must still be air in the system. So, a week ago I bleed the clutch system with the bottle method with a bit of brake fluid in and a pipe inside and connected to the bleeding nipple. I did this untill I saw all the air coming out of the system and only clean brake fluid coming out the pipe.

The clutch was perfect. I was so happy that the issue was solved. Yeah right, only for 200 Km, then it started going soft again. It happened gradually. When I drive in town it's perfect, but when I drive on the freeway over 30 km then the pedal goes soft and stay on the floor. Then I pull it back up, pump it a few times and it's fine again, until I drive on the freeway again, then the clutch goes soft again. I can't see any leaks anywhere. I can't think that the slave is busy going again just after around 20k Km. Can it be? I'm not looking forward to dropping the gearbox again. It's not an easy job and to pay the agents an arm and a leg just to replace the slave is rediculous.

My only thought is to drop the gearbox and replace the slave again as I can't see any other solution. Is there a way of seeing if it is the slave that maybe has a small leak without dropping the gearbox?

Pingboy · Nov 10, 2023

krigepj said:
Hi

I'm also experiencing a very similar clutch problem.

First, let me tell you about my clutch issue. I've got a 2007 Freelander 2 2.2 Td4 SE with 260k Km on it.

I had a slave cylinder issue about 20k Km (2 years) ago, when the clutch pedal went to the floor and when I pulled it back it just went straight down to the floor. I looked under the engine and saw the brake fluid pouring out between the gearbox bell housing and the engine. I then looked at the service manual and found that the slave cylinder is combined in the thrust bearing. This immediately showed me that it was going to be a big job dropping the gearbox. So, I did the responsible thing and changed the dual mass flywheel, clutch plate, pressure plate and the thrust bearing, which is also the slave cylinder, all at the same time. This was a solve for the first clutch problem.

Now, I'm experiencing more or less the same issue. About a month back the clutch pedal started going soft and after a few days also went to the floor and as I pull it back up, it would just go down again. First this I thought is the slave again and looked under the engine for leaks. No leaks and the brake fluid level did not drop. Then it could not be the slave cylinder again as it is only replaced about 2 years ago.

So, I then replaced the master cylinder, which was another big job that I did not expect. Bleeded the entire clutch system after replacing the master cylinder and the clutch was working fairly good, but still some air in the system. I drove with it couple of days and kept bleeding the system and it just kept being a bit soft, thinking there must still be air in the system. So, a week ago I bleed the clutch system with the bottle method with a bit of brake fluid in and a pipe inside and connected to the bleeding nipple. I did this untill I saw all the air coming out of the system and only clean brake fluid coming out the pipe.

The clutch was perfect. I was so happy that the issue was solved. Yeah right, only for 200 Km, then it started going soft again. It happened gradually. When I drive in town it's perfect, but when I drive on the freeway over 30 km then the pedal goes soft and stay on the floor. Then I pull it back up, pump it a few times and it's fine again, until I drive on the freeway again, then the clutch goes soft again. I can't see any leaks anywhere. I can't think that the slave is busy going again just after around 20k Km. Can it be? I'm not looking forward to dropping the gearbox again. It's not an easy job and to pay the agents an arm and a leg just to replace the slave is rediculous.

My only thought is to drop the gearbox and replace the slave again as I can't see any other solution. Is there a way of seeing if it is the slave that maybe has a small leak without dropping the gearbox?

Wow ! Sounds like you have had and still having some bad luck . Sadly I am not the person to ask ,as I don't know, is the answer . Someone on Landyzone will know from my experience using the site . I am going down the changing the master cylinder to see if it resolves my problem ( hopefully doing it tomorrow when the new cylinder arrives ) . Hopefully someone will see your message and give you some ideas as to your question.

krigepj · Nov 10, 2023

Pingboy said:
Wow ! Sounds like you have had and still having some bad luck . Sadly I am not the person to ask ,as I don't know, is the answer . Someone on Landyzone will know from my experience using the site . I am going down the changing the master cylinder to see if it resolves my problem ( hopefully doing it tomorrow when the new cylinder arrives ) . Hopefully someone will see your message and give you some ideas as to your question.

I hope your problem is the master cylinder, but beware if doing it yourself, it's also a big job to do.

Pingboy · Nov 10, 2023

krigepj said:
I hope your problem is the master cylinder, but beware if doing it yourself, it's also a big job to do.

Hope so , thanks for the tip . Will post the outcome.

Ross Tait · Nov 11, 2023

Pingboy said:
Hope so , thanks for the tip . Will post the outcome.

Hi there, usually when the pedal stays on the floor it is the master cylinder internal seals that have gone. If you replace it I suggest you flush the system out as even when the brakes system is flushed it doesn’t renew the fluid in the clutch line. The fluid goes manky over the years and absorbs water eventually getting very dirty. Sometimes a really good flush out will have it working again for a while but they usually eventually need replacing. Maybe take a fluid sample from the bleed valve. Fluid should be changed every 2/3 years according to the manufacturer but most folk who come into my garage have never had it done ever.

Cheers

Pingboy · Nov 15, 2023

Ross Tait said:
Hi there, usually when the pedal stays on the floor it is the master cylinder internal seals that have gone. If you replace it I suggest you flush the system out as even when the brakes system is flushed it doesn’t renew the fluid in the clutch line. The fluid goes manky over the years and absorbs water eventually getting very dirty. Sometimes a really good flush out will have it working again for a while but they usually eventually need replacing. Maybe take a fluid sample from the bleed valve. Fluid should be changed every 2/3 years according to the manufacturer but most folk who come into my garage have never had it done ever.

Cheers

Hi , apologies for late reply, as it stands today finally got the master cylinder replaced, the managed to get it bled . Which in itself is a pain .
The outcome was to be able to drive the it up and down the drive , and back in the garage .However went to it this morning to start it up clutch pedal went straight to the floor . Guess it is the slave cylinder now causing the problem.

Ross Tait · Nov 15, 2023

Pingboy said:
Hi , apologies for late reply, as it stands today finally got the master cylinder replaced, the managed to get it bled . Which in itself is a pain .
The outcome was to be able to drive the it up and down the drive , and back in the garage .However went to it this morning to start it up clutch pedal went straight to the floor . Guess it is the slave cylinder now causing the problem.

Hi there, ok, it seems you may be suffering an issue that the previous owner of my freelander had, there’s something you should maybe check. The previous owner of mine told me about how he had the master replaced and it broke again a week later, the garage it went in to noticed the clutch pedal metal box was cracked/broken. They had to replace master and put a used pedal box in to fix it. I then bought it and have done 60k miles in it since. Have a good look at the pedal box, actuate the clutch up and down with your face right down in there and see if anything opens up or goes squint. The rod should go straight directly into the master from the pedal, shouldn’t be off to side etc. Try that before you think about the slave. Generally when the slave goes you get fluid loss which can often be seen dripping down between engine and box.

Pingboy · Nov 15, 2023

Ross Tait said:
Hi there, ok, it seems you may be suffering an issue that the previous owner of my freelander had, there’s something you should maybe check. The previous owner of mine told me about how he had the master replaced and it broke again a week later, the garage it went in to noticed the clutch pedal metal box was cracked/broken. They had to replace master and put a used pedal box in to fix it. I then bought it and have done 60k miles in it since. Have a good look at the pedal box, actuate the clutch up and down with your face right down in there and see if anything opens up or goes squint. The rod should go straight directly into the master from the pedal, shouldn’t be off to side etc. Try that before you think about the slave. Generally when the slave goes you get fluid loss which can often be seen dripping down between engine and box.

Many thanks for the tip ,something I have not heard of .But will gave a good luck etc .
At the weekend, don't really want to go down the gearbox removal, new clutch plates ,pressure plate route . Thankyou

Ross Tait · Nov 15, 2023

Pingboy said:
Many thanks for the tip ,something I have not heard of .But will gave a good luck etc .
At the weekend, don't really want to go down the gearbox removal, new clutch plates ,pressure plate route . Thankyou

No worries. Your as well to check all the small things first. It’s a lot to strip the box out these.

Pingboy · Nov 15, 2023

Ross Tait said:
No worries. Your as well to check all the small things first. It’s a lot to strip the box out these.

Cheers , never even give it thought when taking the pedal out etc .Roll on the weekend

Pingboy · Nov 19, 2023

Hi all, having chsnged the master cylinder and bled it , got the pedal up and managed to drive it back and forwards etc .Only to find 12 hrs later the clutch pedal has fell back to the floor . Re did the bleeding process but same results etc . Can anyone recommend a clutch kit . Seen them at £499 , but as the car is 2009 don't really want to spend that much unless its necessary. Thanks guys

Ross Tait · Nov 19, 2023

Pingboy said:
Hi all, having chsnged the master cylinder and bled it , got the pedal up and managed to drive it back and forwards etc .Only to find 12 hrs later the clutch pedal has fell back to the floor . Re did the bleeding process but same results etc . Can anyone recommend a clutch kit . Seen them at £499 , but as the car is 2009 don't really want to spend that much unless its necessary. Thanks guys

Personally as a mechanic I would say don’t buy a cheap clutch as it’s too deep in there to be doing twice. I would also say don’t buy anything till you’ve taken it apart. I’ve done hundreds of clutches in my life as a mechanic and we usually test the dual mass once it’s out. If they are still all within spec and you don’t drive like a radge then a dual mass can live the life of two clutches. They are pretty easy to test on a bench and given the cost you could save a lot. My td4 had its clutch done at 150,000 with no dual mass replacement and I’m now on 203,000 with no dual mass “noises”. Done the same on my other old car and it’s just topped 209,000.

Overall it’s up to you. But if you don’t want to spend big money you may not have to, just check stuff. The clutch kit alone won’t be too bad.

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