Starting problems ... Starter motor? Help please

I got the car back last night from the garage.

I parked it at the top of a steep bank ( not a problem here as we live on top of a very large hill ).

This morning I tried starting it again but it was still just turning over very slowly and would not start.

I tried using a jump lead from the negative on the battery to earth on the engine but it was still the same.

I rolled down the bank and jumped in 2nd and it started straight away. Drove for 10 mins and now it's starting off the battery.

The glowplug that is broke off is the 3rd one from the front. It's broken level with the head.

If I get the head off ( I'll be doing that in the future if the car runs with a new starter motor ) then how do I get what's left of the glowplug out? Is that a drill and tap job?

Col

Basically yes careful drilling

skires said:

I got the car back last night from the garage.

I parked it at the top of a steep bank ( not a problem here as we live on top of a very large hill ).

This morning I tried starting it again but it was still just turning over very slowly and would not start.

I tried using a jump lead from the negative on the battery to earth on the engine but it was still the same.

I rolled down the bank and jumped in 2nd and it started straight away. Drove for 10 mins and now it's starting off the battery.

The glowplug that is broke off is the 3rd one from the front. It's broken level with the head.

If I get the head off ( I'll be doing that in the future if the car runs with a new starter motor ) then how do I get what's left of the glowplug out? Is that a drill and tap job?

Col

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Hi there Col, If I were you I wouldn't worry about the glowplugs for the moment, I would be concentrating on the starting problem.

This is how I would approach it:

1. Disconnect the battery neg cable

2. Disconnect the starter electrical cables and clean thoroughly down to clean metal - this includes the battery neg lead where it connects to the chassis.

3. Reconnect everything and try to turn the engine over - better or not?

Cheers
Dave

PS the earth point on the wing, just behind the battery doesn't affect the cars ability to start, but it will potentially affect things like lights radio etc, stuff fixed to the body rather than the chassis.

Chrs Fanatic

Dave

Ok mate I'll do that today ( at the top of the hill ). I agree, I'll get her starting and worry about the glowplug later on.


Cheers

I'll let you know what happens.

Col

Well ....

I did as you said.

The earth terminal connection and the main 12v connection to the starter looked all good but I removed them and cleaned them as you said. The little spade connector to the starter was mucky as hell and loose. So I cleaned that and closed it a little so it is now a tight fit.

The Earth from the battery where it connects to the chassis was solid and I couldn't get that undone. I didn't give it loads as I was using an open ended spanner and I didn't want to round the head.

All this took about half an hour. I reconnected battery and it seemed more aggressive on starter motor and started straight away.

I'll try it again in a hour or so. The big test will be in the morning after a cold night standing ... but I'll park it on the hill just in case.

Really appreciate the help guys so thanks.

Col

Ooooh ... whilst I was cleaning connections on starter motor ... I noticed a thin 'tube' that goes from a small box just inside the front right of the engine compartment ... sort of on the inner wing as you look to your right from the front. This push fits onto that box then goes around back of engine. Well it was ... er ... melted through so went nowhere. I looked on the other side and there is a similar 'tube' coming off a T junction from the back of the brake fluid filler assembly that heads off behind engine but is also burned through. I'm not sure what that does but I presume I need to replace it with a good one?

Col

hi pal
regarding your broken heater plug, i repair lots of these motors every year and when a heater snaps off i take to a local engine reconditioner who drills it out for me and does anything else to repair the heater hole for me with the head on the car, so try ringing aroud your local companies as im sure some one in your area will offer the same service. It'll save you removing your head.

Now this is getting weird ...

After spending 5 mins typing the above reply I went outside and it's dead again. So I tried to jump it off a neighbours car and it started in an instant with the starter motor spinning really fast.

???


Col

but you still haven't done the chassis side of the zero volts feed, you said it's too tight to get off

gregdiscovery said:

hi pal
regarding your broken heater plug, i repair lots of these motors every year and when a heater snaps off i take to a local engine reconditioner who drills it out for me and does anything else to repair the heater hole for me with the head on the car, so try ringing aroud your local companies as im sure some one in your area will offer the same service. It'll save you removing your head.

Click to expand...

Hi mate

This morning I went to Dales in Burslem. They are regarded as the Gods of diesel motoring locally. The guy there said similar to you that whenever they snap off a heater plug there is a local company called Allards who specialise in getting things like this out without removing the head. So I've got their number now and have been trying to ring them but they are permanently engaged. Must be a lot of heater plugs being snapped off.

Thank you

Col

Sean said:

but you still haven't done the chassis side of the zero volts feed, you said it's too tight to get off

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That's right.

That probably sounds like a cop out ... but I was working today with the car on a very steep hill which is a main road, so not ideal as cars were flying past and I'd got the car parked on the opposite side of the road so the starter side was on the roadside ( if that makes sense ... I had to park like that because of junctions ).

The only thing I could get on it was an open ended spanner and it wasn't budging and I didn't want to round it.

I'll have another go at that.

Col

P.S. The wife comes from Orkney ... Sanday Isle.

skires said:

That's right.

That probably sounds like a cop out ... but I was working today with the car on a very steep hill which is a main road, so not ideal as cars were flying past and I'd got the car parked on the opposite side of the road so the starter side was on the roadside ( if that makes sense ... I had to park like that because of junctions ).

The only thing I could get on it was an open ended spanner and it wasn't budging and I didn't want to round it.

I'll have another go at that.

Col

P.S. The wife comes from Orkney ... Sanday Isle.

Click to expand...

It sounds to me like you've improved the situation at least a bit, but if the car starts easily with a jumplead start, that points to a weak car battery to me.

Dave

Spot the idiot comment above by me ...

The battery main earth is on the driver's side and not on the same side as the starter. It was whilst messing with the starter connections that my buttocks were twitching as cars flew past.

Anyway ... I've had another go at the battery earth where it connects to the chassis. The bolt is a bit rusty and needs replacing but I parked up on top of the hill again ... people are starting to stare.

I left it a few minutes with engine off and tried to start car .... very slow turning over and wouldn't start. So I managed to undo the bolt by about half it's length and sprayed lots of contact cleaner all over it. I tightened it up really tight and tried the car. This time the same battery that was turning it over dead slow and wouldn't start it 15 mins previous turned it over quite quickly and the car started straight away.

FFS guys if this turns out to just be a dodgy earth I'll have to bite off my own arm. This is the basic stuff that my Grandad was teaching me when I had my first old Mini 32 years ago.

... but if this makes me look stupid then what about the guy that has been running that local garage for all these years? I asked him if it could be a connection and he said no. Mind you ... maybe he's not that stupid ... he's made 50 quid out of me for fitting a set of glow plugs ( he said he'd paid 50 for them ) and then he wanted to make another 300 quid for taking the head off to get out the plug that he'd broke off. Sounds like a nice little earner.

Just had a call from that place that removes broken heater plugs. He says he's never done a Landy but he whips them out of Transits every day. He says to take it on Saturday and he'll have a look.

So I'll see in the morning if it starts but I will get a new bolt and make sure that earth is right.

Col

reattach the earth to the engine block, much easier to get to for cleaning in future.

It sounds more and more like an earth problem doesn't it, which makes it an easy and cheap fix. The really great thing about these cars is that problems are so often something cheap and easy.

Re the glowplugs (£10 for 4 btw) at least the majority are new?


Dave

Hey Col,

Don't beat yourself up about it we all do stuff like this.

The other day my lights went so I took the master switch out and found three wires on the outside one which had come unsoldered. Simple fix. So because it was so simple I decided instead of just re soldering the wire on and seeing if that worked..... I would open the switch up and make sure everything inside was clean and fine..... needless to say after 20mins I could not remember where the little springs etc went.... 2hrs later I was slightly rattie.... 3hrs later it was in the bin and I was ordering one from Paddocks.:doh:

I can remember my old man saying something like "...dont take them switches apart you will never get the springs back in it..."

So I know the feeling

Sky

Good idea Barmatt

I think the earth has definitely played it's part in this Dave.

LOL cheers Sky. It's classic me. I once took the Mother in Law's house apart because a downstairs wall light wouldn't come on. I had all the floorboards up upstairs and all the upstairs furniture up the back garden. I finally found the problem ... one of the wires was loose on the wall light ( Shhh I never told the MIL. She still buys me a bottle of whisky every Christmas for fixing her lighting problem ).

I think there's a bit of all sorts going on ... I'm not sure the battery is at it's best. I'm sure the fuelling will be better when I solve the leak on the fuel pump shaft and clean out the sediment filter.

I'll make sure I make a proper job of that earth and see how we go.

Cheers fellas.

Col

I put mine on the engine block as it just seemed more sensible to be higher up and easier to get too rather than trapped low down in a gap that gets filled with crap.

Where ever you re-attach the earth lead make sure everything is shiny and bright and bolt up tight-a lot of amps needs to flow when you turn that key,and any resistance kills it

Hey all just thought i'd give you a giggle after all i said last night about earth and not havin any probs since i cleaned mine, Got up this morning car turned over really slow for about 5 seconds before battery breathed its last replaced battery tonight dropped meter on and alternator seems to have gremlins. i,ll start a new thread regarding that. Starting to think car is taking micky out of me, Before this bad weather i'd decided to sell disco and just use my bike to save some cash but then snow hit and disco has performed so well i'd said that it definetly wasn't being sold. I think its decided that its safe to depart us of our hard earned cos we would'nt dream of selling it.. lol

Just a thought, have you checked the starter is bolted on nice and tight. If it's loose(ish) the earth to the starter will be poor. Could be the same if starter is very oily or corroded where it fits to the engine block.