Starter solenoid or motor ?

I've ordered a news solenoid and earth battery cable , the current one is a bit rusty and fraying ,where is the best place to earth it to ? , Currently it's between the wing and the battery box and there's no chance of me fitting my fat hands down there to attach it , it will be enough of a job to get the old one off

Run the earth from the batt to one of the starter bolts or the earth bolt on the starter. Then also run one from there to the chassis and to the bulkhead. The big current is the starter so that's where you want the big cable. but the steel bulkhead, steel chassis and ally body all need to be earthed and a lots of bits either have sealant or corrosion between them so you have wire it all together. That means earthing the bulkhead, front wings, rear tub and dash because its a bolted together body so you can't assume anything is connected to anything else. These wires don't need to be huge, but bigger than a normal lighting wire. There should be an earth post for the lights near the battery or rad, link up that too. Some of get an earth terminal block and bolt it to the bulkhead then run wires to that.
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The new solenoid didnt make any difference , as suggested I will run try to make a secure earth to starter , to be honest when I put the starter in I done remember earthing it , I think the original one was just earthed from the two bolts the the bulkhead , so I'll give that a try and update , thanks

It sounds like you're having the same problems as me, newish starter, new solenoid, new cables, new battery and still it struggles to turn over. My latest attempt was to fit a battery isolator so that there is no parasitic drain on the battery when it's not being driven regularly. Unfortunately, that hasn't cured it either. I am aware that new replacement starters are not as good as the originals but you'd think there would be some improvement. The only thing left for me to do is to fit a high torque starter but they are best part of £300 so it's on a future 'to do' list

Col

Are you both charging the battery fully to make sure its all not a weak alternator?
The battery earth main cable should go to the starter bolts or the earth bolt on the starter if its big enough. Then earth the same bolt with a cable to the chassis. I don't think a £300 high torque starter will be better than an old Lucas with a cleaned up commutator and decent brushes. These are not huge engines and the M45 starters are fine for up to 6 L engines.

rob1miles said:

Are you both charging the battery fully to make sure its all not a weak alternator?
The battery earth main cable should go to the starter bolts or the earth bolt on the starter if its big enough. Then earth the same bolt with a cable to the chassis. I don't think a £300 high torque starter will be better than an old Lucas with a cleaned up commutator and decent brushes. These are not huge engines and the M45 starters are fine for up to 6 L engines.

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I've fitted a new bigger alternator cos the original packed up. Ive tried 3 batteries so far, 2 of them brand new and heavy duty. My plug in volt meter says it's charging at over 14v and the battery reads 12.4 - 12.6 volts after a few days rest. I had a similar problem on a Vaxhaul Cresta in the late 1970's that turned out to be tight big ends.

Col

Col , it must be a Brummie based problem .

I've made a bit of progress , in the rain ! , I put a jump lead on the negative terminal of the battery and the other end on the bolt at back of starter , it turned over a bit better, however battery was almost dead by then so I've got battery on charge , tomorrow if weather is good I'll put fully charged battery on and a more solid negative and try it again ,

Thanks for advice , not there yet but one step nearer

neilc75 said:

Col , it must be a Brummie based problem .

I've made a bit of progress , in the rain ! , I put a jump lead on the negative terminal of the battery and the other end on the bolt at back of starter , it turned over a bit better, however battery was almost dead by then so I've got battery on charge , tomorrow if weather is good I'll put fully charged battery on and a more solid negative and try it again ,

Thanks for advice , not there yet but one step nearer

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Well done keep going, don't let the bugger get the better of you.

Col

Ok , more progress , I earthed to the block with jumper cable and attached second jumper cable earth to earth lead tucked away behind passenger wheel , started first time , two other things I've noticed , it's definitely doing something because when I remove cables there is a change in engine noise , possibly running slower , also since I have owned landy on start up red battery light stays illuminated until revs ... Its stopped doing that , after 6 years it goes off straight away !! , I'll just have to add some permanent. earth's now . I just stress about how much I've spent ( hundreds) on bits in past including new battery and starter that might not have been needed , thank all , really appreciate the advice

I do wonder how many people have replaced perfectly good starters for the want of a decent earth lead. I suspect its quite a few.

rob1miles said:

I do wonder how many people have replaced perfectly good starters for the want of a decent earth lead. I suspect its quite a few.

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And many garages have probably done the done the same. for owners

Putting it all back together , is there an easy was to reattach the solenoid , can I use self tapping bolts/screws as God knows how I'm going to get to the back in order to reconnect it ? It's fiddly at best .

Rivnuts?

Ok , I've got a further related issue , I've realised that it was an earthing issue so I started cleaning /replacing the earth's , Ive put a new earth from one of the nuts on the starter to the chassis , now when I say the nut on the starter I mean where it bolts onto the bulkhead to the chassis , now I have a concern , I originally confirmed this was the problem because I put a jump lead from the starter bolt to battery negative and it solved the problem but the earth strap didn't reproduce the same result so I put the jump lead on the battery negative and clipped it on the new chassis to starter earth strap and it sparks !! , Should that happen ? Only a small spark but still negative battery to earth lead shouldnt spark , should it ?

No, but it suggests something is trying to draw current (have you got the lights switched on), and the jump lead is completing the circuit between the battery and chassis that should already be made by the main battery cables.

I suggest you check the negative battery cable, and where it goes to the chassis and/or engine block. Something somewhere is broken and you don't have a good set of earth cables that you need.

Yes, I would clean the surface where the new earth lead connects to the chassis. The earth side should all be at the same potential. Also clean where the earth connects to the body as its not always obvious where the resistance is.

I've done a temporary bodge ( I genuinely never do this , it will be very temporary) there's a threaded hole on one side of the engine block , I don't know what it's for , however I didn't have a earth cable with a that was suitable so I've connected one end to the battery earth and the other to the engine block by cable intended to connect to battery . The alternator sounds quicker when o connet it , it's almost as if it quietly whistles . Over many years I've bought a new alternator , battery and starter motor , I'm hoping that they weren't all unecessary, all seems fine now , it's turns over without any trouble , seems block wasn't earthed ? , Thanks for advice

Interesting, you can usually assume that if one part of the engine is earthed the rest is, but perhaps there's some corrosion or gasket goop in the circuit.