Squeal/squeak R&L on full lock

Hi all, I'm posting on behalf of the missus, who has an 01(Y) TD4 S 5-door Flander. It's a high miler - 106k on the clock at last count.

I've scoured the forum for a similar problem, but don't see anything matching this...

It has a high-pitched squeal from either side when driving at low speed on full lock. In fact the noise starts before it reaches full lock. Sounds like brake noise but I've had the pads out, lovingly cleaned & coppered, makes no difference.

The local LR garage (an independent, but one of those who are a bit up themselves and think they're better than a main dealer) say they _think_ it's the IRD (heavens, fancy it being the most expensive part in the drivetrain!). However as far as I can see from a bit of web research a failing IRD would be accompanied by more of a clicky/cracky noise - correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway the dealer, who shall for now remain nameless, is unashamedly using this to try to flog my poor unsuspecting missus a Disco, which of course is going to cost us more in, well, everything - not least Mr Brown's newly upped car tax.

So back to the original query - any ideas? I read of the 'characteristic' of braking action on full lock due to the viscous coupling mallarkey, so could it be that?

I await your vast and impressive knowledge...

Daniel

reet try the same action, but this time apply the brakes very slightly [might need a touch off throttle] is noise still there if no then its the leading edge off ya disks [not pads] want file -ing orft or one side or both front wheel bearings want tightning or replacing. . . .oh un best of luck earthling. . .

so the car has to be moving for noise to happen on full lock? or can you get it stationary?

No, 'tis only while on the move - obviously the main time it happens is when parking - slow speeds and full lock. So were you thinking power steering?

just wanted to rule out power steering out if that was faulting you woul;d get it at stand still aswell as moving

so its some thing that gets strained by the extra load of turning, strain through the drivetrain as the viscous coupling tightens up which would lead to your garages diagnosis

so dropping your prop off car would help diagnose the ird as there would be no strain through it when turning

but the squeeling is more of a steering noise

cars eh who'd av em

Thanks LRG, I'll have a go at the Emperor's suggestions, see how that goes. I don't think I have the nerve (or the gear) to start whipping props off, so will leave that to the pros.

Blimmin ve-hickles, nowt but trouble.

D

know wot lr was thinkin un good thoughts , also un lr might remember this there was an issue wiff power stearin on full lock a long while back but i jist cannot remember the full details ,i ruled out cv's as that is more clucky ont full lock,so brakes un bearings first port ah call. . . .let us all know youll git help on here lot er good peeps. . .

ming said:

know wot lr was thinkin un good thoughts , also un lr might remember this there was an issue wiff power stearin on full lock a long while back but i jist cannot remember the full details ,i ruled out cv's as that is more clucky ont full lock,so brakes un bearings first port ah call. . . .let us all know youll git help on here lot er good peeps. . .

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ahh yes remember lr changing the steering hose to a modified flat hose to eliminate a noise, damn i cant remember the reason

Can I just say that takin the prop off is not a difficult task I done mine by putting the front up on ramps and jacked the back wheel up and turning the rear wheel as I un bolted the prop either end, never done anything like it before but still only took 1/2 hour

Labiarat said:

Can I just say that takin the prop off is not a difficult task I done mine by putting the front up on ramps and jacked the back wheel up and turning the rear wheel as I un bolted the prop either end, never done anything like it before but still only took 1/2 hour

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yes this is not hard, 6 bolts at front 4 at the back and 4 in the middle,
but if you are unsure then best leave it to someone who knows what they doin, the last thing you want to be doing is leaving a few bolts loose when you put it back together,

LR GUY said:

yes this is not hard, 6 bolts at front 4 at the back and 4 in the middle,
but if you are unsure then best leave it to someone who knows what they doin, the last thing you want to be doing is leaving a few bolts loose when you put it back together,

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Yeah, it's not as if I'm scared of doing a bit of spannering - been taking stuff to bits since I could crawl! But nowadays (God that makes me sound old!) I'm not tooled up for heavy lifting - I'm more attuned to tweaking me Yamaha (fnarr). And I've lost my jack handle. I can lift me Focus with a stout screwdriver in the jack mechanism, but 2 tonnes of LR is a bit more of a challenge! Maybe it's time for a new jack and some ramps.

Anyway the Missus has taken the darned thing to work for most of the weekend, so any maintenance will have to wait for now.

D

It has a high-pitched squeal from either side when driving at low speed on full lock you say.
With out actualy hearing it its hard to say, but all power steering systems make a squeal at full lock because this is when they are under most pressure. Could it be this perfectly normal noise or is it louder than this. The fact that it happens on both locks does steer me in this direction.

Oh yea, just like to say hello to all on my 1st post. Been reading all your wise posts and decided it was time to join in.

Hi RT, thanks for your input! The noise is a real loud'un - as I said, she's taken the beastie to work this weekend. Maybe when it's back I'll use some techno-computer wizardry to record the noise for the archives. Then you can all experience the magic.

Suffice to say it's loud enough to be embarrassing in a busy car park!

Well I'll be buggered...

I thought I'd try out the suggestions this evening, driving round in a small (well, as small as is possible in a Flander!) circle, see if my noise happened with the brakes applied.

And would you effin believe it, I could not make it sing, not so much as a peep. Not forward, backward, right, left, slow, fast...

So just posting to the forum has fixed it. That is good service. Well done everyone.

Seriously, I can't explain it. AFAIK the garage only adjusted the handbrake, they didn't do any other work. Very odd.

D

porky got fed up wiff ya moanin. . .so e sneaked in yer gaff un fixed it. . .ope ya didnt mind

update time.... dah de dah da da dah (dramatic news-type music)


Mr noise came back to visit, so I thought I'd have a bit of a tinker.

So, all 4 wheels orf, front brakes cleaned to within an inch of their life, carefully coppered (no evidence that the dealer who changed the pads & discs 6 months ago had applied any grease), 20lbs of mud lovingly pried out from inaccessible nooks & crannies (and that was just in the shower afterwards - fnarr).

I also took the opportunity to hammerite the drums, looks a tiny bit better than captain tinworm.

Underneath I checked for loosages in the drivetrain, and hopefully here's a question you can answer for me... this vicious* coupling wossname - with the back wheels orf the ground, I'd expect to be able to turn the rear shaft slowly by hand without the front prop turning. But it feels completely locked, no play in there whatsoever. Is this normal, and if not would it explain (a) my horrible noise and (b) excessive rear tyre wear? Do VCs lock up, and can it be freed like Nelson Mandela or will I need a new one?

It kind of seems obvious about the tyre wear - if normally the back sort of does it's own thing depending on the VC and prop speed, but now it's being forced to turn against its will, that would force the tyres to grip harder than they should and shred themselves against the road. Or am I talking testicles?

Anyway after today's TLC the noise seems less, so a bit of a result there. And has anyone got a spare centre cap for steel wheels, cos I broke one!

Wisdom and all manner of condescension awaited with bated breath...

D


*I am aware that it's a viscous coupling, I was just mis-spelling for comedy effect.

do the tipex test fer the vc. . .apply tipex each side er vc in straight line, find er golf course [snigger] wiv damp grass un welly it [make wheels spin] re check lines [should have moved] if not ya have er 1000000000-1 chance it fell back in line , so try agin, if still in line yer got 10000000000000000000-1 chance or ya vcu is fooked , it is seized as oposed ta not workin at all [mondo mode]. . . .hope this elps ya

Truly that is a genuis-shaped notion! Robin, fetch me the tipp-ex and orf we go to the open plains and savannahs of Naaarfuk.

Thanks Ming, now that I've bin under there it all looks quite straightforward to drop the prop and bung a new VCU in, save meself some wedge at the stealer's.

D

Well, the VC's as seized as a very seized thing. I thought I'd bite the bullet, fabricated a new jack 'andle and took off the prop. After a good hour's hammering the VC is now separated from the props and we have a 2wd Hippo... which STILL squeaks on lock. Bum. I reckon it must be brakes. Least I spose it means it's not a serious driveline-related noise 'cos I've removed the driveline and eliminated any stress on the IRD.

Anyway new VC and bearings on order - I now need someone with a hydraulic press to bung the bearings on for me, unless anyone's got any DIY bearing-fitting ideas...

Apparently the dealers call them the Land Rover ThreeGrander, which is about how much we've spent on it in the same number of years.

danielcarway said:

Well, the VC's as seized as a very seized thing. I thought I'd bite the bullet, fabricated a new jack 'andle and took off the prop. After a good hour's hammering the VC is now separated from the props and we have a 2wd Hippo... which STILL squeaks on lock. Bum. I reckon it must be brakes. Least I spose it means it's not a serious driveline-related noise 'cos I've removed the driveline and eliminated any stress on the IRD.

Anyway new VC and bearings on order - I now need someone with a hydraulic press to bung the bearings on for me, unless anyone's got any DIY bearing-fitting ideas...

Apparently the dealers call them the Land Rover ThreeGrander, which is about how much we've spent on it in the same number of years.

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Putting one of the parts in the deepfreezer might help in getting it on easier ??