Somethings Not Right!?

Softening of the head material (specifically around the fire ring area where the gasket contacts the head face) is another common problem with these engines and the gasket sinks into the head material and so doesn't seal for very long. Payen do a 'Head Saver Shim' to help recover heads that have suffered this - or warped too much to be skimmed and reused under normal circumstances.

out of interest how much was skimmed off the head and what did the liners measure above the block?

Anguslives! said:

No you can't tell unless you take of the head, your going to be in the same boat as me, I've loads of service history, but like most jobs on cars they only get changed when it's needed not because there is something new that's replaced the old.

If you'd have bought it off me I would have told you, you'd prob do the same helps with the price....

Only thing I can think of is perhaps if the heads been off some firms mark the head (front or rear) with marker pen, if you can find some writing on it then perhaps?

saying that 70k is good on the old style so who knows!?

But only one way to find out!!!! Sorry.

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Actually you can tell, I have posted this on MG-Rover.org as well, Here's my engine with the grey tab just above the serial numbers.





Other part numbers, might be in service record??

Standard gasket - RVLQ000090
Payen Mk III - RVLB000320
Multi Layer Steel - LVB500190

You can also see the gasket sandwiched between the head/block, see attachment of new OEM gasket, at dipstick corner

Anguslives! said:

how long would you wait before checking head bolts again - 500 miles???

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That's it, you're done

20Nm phase 1
180 deg phase 2
180 deg phase 3


Did you get the nice creak of metal as each bolt tightens.

You'll be paranoid for the next few weeks, driving with the radio turned down, listening to every sound...................

well; drive on sir, welcome to the post hgf veterans club

lining up the marks ?

Although apparently, the bolts dont get to full clamping force until after a complete heat cycle.

freelance said:

out of interest how much was skimmed off the head and what did the liners measure above the block?

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LR tech bulletin 0036 ( post 1 http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/freelander-1-8-k-series-hgf-more-data-36863.html)

Figures stat max skim 0.2mm, max head width 118.75mm

Liner height is supposed to be 0.075mm proud.

Other reports of liners varying, so long as they are all flush with each other

Northern Irelander said:

LR tech bulletin 0036 ( post 1 http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/freelander-1-8-k-series-hgf-more-data-36863.html)

Figures stat max skim 0.2mm, max head width 118.75mm

Liner height is supposed to be 0.075mm proud.

Other reports of liners varying, so long as they are all flush with each other

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thats not wot freelance asked, NI - he asked how much was skimmed - not how much should have been or how much max can be.

The Mad Hat Man said:

thats not wot freelance asked, NI - he asked how much was skimmed - not how much should have been or how much max can be.

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I know, but guess what his next question was gonna be!

yu spoiled our fun

if i remember proppa - the liner height changed at some point as well?

Good thread, and I agree with the theory that spending some time sorting this out properly is the way to go - how many cases of sequential HGF came from a garage just changing the HG and not the oil rail or PRRT, which are the root cause?

Angus, you mentioned that the oil rail was quite difficult to fit, can you explain what was difficult and how you got around it. Also, do you have an estimate of how many hours of work it took.

ianda12 said:

Nice to read that someone can be bothered to fix a problem rather than scrap it.
I read an article from somebody who builds 'K' series engines for racing, he seems to think the multiple head gasket failure is caused by the engine over heating enough to soften the aliuminium which is hardened when the engine was first built. If your engine didn't overheat badly you might not have another failure.
I tried locating the article but haven't found it yet.

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Very true, Like I've mentioned had the head stripped fully down and tested twice before and after skimming = passed with flying colours.

Northern Irelander said:

That's it, you're done

20Nm phase 1
180 deg phase 2
180 deg phase 3


Did you get the nice creak of metal as each bolt tightens.

You'll be paranoid for the next few weeks, driving with the radio turned down, listening to every sound...................

well; drive on sir, welcome to the post hgf veterans club

Click to expand...

"Paranoid" who said that!!! Totally!

Yes the bolts went down nice, I've been told to re-check them, just to loosen off a quarter turn and see if they settle in the same position as they tend to go a little bit further.

Just for the record I've just turned my radio back on this morning along with the heater! haha

The Mad Hat Man said:

Softening of the head material (specifically around the fire ring area where the gasket contacts the head face) is another common problem with these engines and the gasket sinks into the head material and so doesn't seal for very long. Payen do a 'Head Saver Shim' to help recover heads that have suffered this - or warped too much to be skimmed and reused under normal circumstances.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't go there, I've seen them and services alike stating that they can fix the head under these conditions, me I'd replace the head. But thats just me.

Northern Irelander

I'm going to check bolts again at 500 miles and post the details on here.

They might tighten down they might not, either way I'll let ya know.

And yes I'll do it before warming the engine "stone cold baby".


Message to myself, post final pictures of engine!

freelance said:

out of interest how much was skimmed off the head and what did the liners measure above the block?

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I smell wind up!

whythehellnot? said:

Good thread, and I agree with the theory that spending some time sorting this out properly is the way to go - how many cases of sequential HGF came from a garage just changing the HG and not the oil rail or PRRT, which are the root cause?

Angus, you mentioned that the oil rail was quite difficult to fit, can you explain what was difficult and how you got around it. Also, do you have an estimate of how many hours of work it took.

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It all depends on factors, like getting the head skimmed etc, I got mine back the next day, so you could prob get all the work done within 2 or 3 days (around 5 hrs per day) inc setting up and packing away. I did mine outside so weather played a big part in mine Oooo and the cleaning up the gunk that went "everywhere"

The Oil rail fits in minutes once the sump plate is off, like I mentioned only one bolt on the sump plate is a bugger as a bracket sits over it therefore you have to remove the bracket (8 bolts I recall) and to have better access to the bracket I had to remove a supporting arm (3 bolts) so you've got to remove 11 bolts to get to 1 that's all haha.

The Mad Hat Man said:

yu spoiled our fun

if i remember proppa - the liner height changed at some point as well?

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Haha very funny you got nothing better to do than to wind me up! 100 miles covered so far, 400 to go for your 500 mile quote.... then who'll be laughing!

"did anyone order some humble pie over here"? Perhaps you can also use this one for a quote!!!!

Anguslives! said:

Haha very funny you got nothing better to do than to wind me up! 100 miles covered so far, 400 to go for your 500 mile quote.... then who'll be laughing!

"did anyone order some humble pie over here"? Perhaps you can also use this one for a quote!!!!

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yu just dont get it - do ya?

Get what!? I don't follow so I guess you just have to tell me.....

Well done Anguslives! Hope all goes well for you. If only the tratter boys didn't wander so much...

Allan