Slow to turn over when cold, but not the battery!?

Hi folks, my 1984 90 2.5 N/A is giving me grief as usual, there's always something, but I stay positive, sort it and cross it off the endless list of things to fix.

But, I'm beginning to wain in the direction of getting rid as the latest/ongoing problem is wearing me down

Having had 2 new batteries and a new high output alternator all in the last month, it refused to start again this morning. It was about -1 degrees and it turned over like a half charged battery. I checked the voltage after cranking it over and over and it was still on 13.75v. I left it until later that morning and it started straight away, turning over much faster. The latest battery has 900 cranking amps and I'm 99 % sure it's not the battery.

So, any suggestions on what could be causing this as it only happens on cold mornings

Daz

try dipping clutch when you try to turn over, have you got rite oil in gearbox? and have you checked/redone earth points/

Cheers Uncle albert

uncle albert said:

try dipping clutch when you try to turn over,

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Tried that, doesn't seem to make any difference

uncle albert said:

you got rite oil in gearbox?

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I presume so, but don't know for sure, but if I dipped the clutch would oil type make any difference?

uncle albert said:

have you checked/redone earth points/

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No, not done that. But how would the cold affect the connections?

Daz

SuperDaz said:

Cheers Uncle albert


Tried that, doesn't seem to make any difference


I presume so, but don't know for sure, but if I dipped the clutch would oil type make any difference?


No, not done that. But how would the cold affect the connections?

Daz

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cold normaly atracts damp thus affects any poor earth,

Sounds like bad earth to me. Possibly coupled with bad connections on the +ve cable at the starter motor.

bad earth or ****ed starter

cheers boys, I'll start with the starter connections then (although I'm still slightly puzzled why it's ok when warmer, even when wet)

Daz

It's just the moisture, when it's cold and the humidity is high the dew point is low and a lot of moisture will form on the metalwork, so when it warms this is less of a problem.

Fix: remove earth straps, clean up all contact faces on chassis, engine, gearbox, bolts etc, bolt it all up with some copperslip and then cover the lot in vaseline or grease to stop water ingress between the

What type of oil is in the engine? If it's too thick for the cold weather, could it affect the engine's ability to turn over from cold? Just a stab in the dark

Ok, not had chance to look at it again over the weekend so I took a look yesterday.

Checked all the glow plugs and found a potentially problematic one that only got hot when I put my finger on the end :doh: ouch!

Attached a jump lead to the engine block and compared the voltage to that when I put my (not very good) meter across the battery. They were the same, so I concluded that the earth connection was good.

Decided to try and keep battery warmer so I wrapped it up in situe (not covering the top) and left it on charge all night.


Jumped in this morning, -4 degrees, turned key and.....it let me down again

Tried it this afternoon and hey presto, it started.

So I have now, as recommended on here (and I should have listened in the first place), physically checked the earth strap - it was OK. And, as also recommended on here the starter +ve - this wasn't very tight and as I undid it a connector came off one of the 3 thick brown wires. So, I am hoping that with new connector and clean and tight connections all round, it will start at 6:30am tomorrow.

Just as an aside: It was firing this morning but not enough to start properly and all the time I'm running the battery down more, it gets less likely to start. I think there may be other issues at stake here too like the cold start mechanism or injector pattern or fuel pump, that when combined with slow turning over, colaberate to make me an unhappy bunny.

FYI I have 15w/40 oil in the engine, should I go thinner?

Fingers crossed for tomorrow. Sorry about the "War and Peace" post

The oil shouldn't be a problem. Remember not to touch the pedal until it fires as you'll knock the cold start mechanism off. Give it 30 seconds heat, then depress the clutch and hit the starter. Keep it turning till it fires up. If you had bad connections you've probably sorted it.

hughesy said:

The oil shouldn't be a problem. Remember not to touch the pedal until it fires as you'll knock the cold start mechanism off. Give it 30 seconds heat, then depress the clutch and hit the starter. Keep it turning till it fires up. If you had bad connections you've probably sorted it.

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Well, it started Ok Weds, Thurs and Fri BUT it hasn't been as cold. I Haven't used it since Friday afternoon so will give it a try later.

Daz

SuperDaz said:

Jumped in this morning, -4 degrees, turned key and.....it let me down again

Tried it this afternoon and hey presto, it started.

So I have now, as recommended on here (and I should have listened in the first place), physically checked the earth strap - it was OK. And, as also recommended on here the starter +ve - this wasn't very tight and as I undid it a connector came off one of the 3 thick brown wires. So, I am hoping that with new connector and clean and tight connections all round, it will start at 6:30am tomorrow.

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Following on from the above, it did start the next morning and I really thought I'd fixed it ...UNTIL a couple of days later and it wouldn't start again

Called out RAC again, he put his jump leads on and it turned over much faster but was still hesitant to start but did in the end. RAC man said "Glow Plugs" to which I replied "I've checked them, they're ok". He then said that checking them individually, they might glow but when all 4 are calling for current, a poor one will bring the others down. So, £35 later I've got a set of NGK glow plugs to fit.

Got up the next morning and was outside for 7:00am changing the glow plugs, it was - 6 degrees outside! Turned the key and ...hey presto, it started straight away! Yippee, yahoo, thank fcuk.


Few days later.....:doh: it wouldn't start again :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: so I get talking to a friend who suggests that maybe the starter is gunged up and this is adding to the effort required to turn it over when it is cold, and maybe sometimes is just tipping the balance.

So, after it wouldn't start again today (been ok last 2 days, well...it's just about started) I have spent 6 hours in -9 degrees removing the starter, stripping it down and giving everything a good clean. As soon as I began, ANOTHER connector dropped off one of the brown wires! I then noticed that the "exciter wire?" was chaffed so I cut that back and put a new terminal on. The starter was covered in oil where the gear is at the end but it wasn't too bad inside. However, the grease that was on the gears and cogs seemed a bit thick and sticky and there felt some resistance when trying to turn the shaft so I washed it all off and re-greased it lightly. I could then spin the shaft by hand. Cleaned the bearings up too as they felt a bit sticky and cleaned the solenoid piston.

Anyway, put it all back together and ...

It started, BUT now my alternator light is saying on, all be it very dim but it wasn't before AAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH!

Popped the bonnet again, touched one of the wires to the alternator and it just came away the connector had broken off and the connection on the other wire looked dicy too so I replaced both.

One thing I have noticed is that the thick brown wires from the starter (one of which goes to the alternator) are quite brittle and the insulation cracks easily. I presume this is down to age and the temp?

Tried it and it started again, but I'm still sceptical so let's see what tomorrow brings?

Daz

Hi I seem to be having a similar issue to yourself have you managed to fix it.

Started Sunday and Monday

Didn't start this morning

It's definately turning over better since stripping and cleaning the starter, but when cold, it just doesn't fire quick enough and I end up running the battery down. Once started, if I let it run for 5 minutes and turn it off, it will start straight away.

I'm thinking it may be a fuel issue now but it's only when cold I have any problems ?????

Daz

Mine turns over slowly in the cold even with a new battery and I've been told to check all the earth straps so I'll be doing that soon. It looks like you've tried this though. Are you starting it by warming the glow plugs and then turning her over without touching the throttle? If you press it I think it de-activates the cold start mechanism.

Andy Land said:

Mine turns over slowly in the cold even with a new battery and I've been told to check all the earth straps so I'll be doing that soon. It looks like you've tried this though. Are you starting it by warming the glow plugs and then turning her over without touching the throttle? If you press it I think it de-activates the cold start mechanism.

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Yes mate, I do/have done all that.

Frustrating isn't it!

Hi

I have exactly the same issue

Fully charged battery and started yesterday, came to it this morning and failed to start.
Battery has been professionally tested and it OK

I found this info on another forum



690SM Hard Starting Very Slow Cranking

I hope this is not the case, I've got many of the suggestions to check first

Did you ever solve the issue ?

Mine too turns over really slowly in the cold winter months, I have 2 battery's on mine and know that they are fine. The only thing I can put it down to is the diesel getting too cold, so now I always add a few litres of petrol to my diesel and it starts much easier.

I'm having the same problem (200 TDi) and finally got it to fire, but it would not rev or tick over properly: suspected fuel startvation so tried bleeding the system, but no fuel and pump lever very limp. Took off bottom drain on filter and I had a dribble of water and no fuel BUT there was ice on the plastic cover. So I'm suspecting a big dose of ice in my fuel system and with it being warmer, it is now melting. Could be the same for you?