Series 3 Diesel Fuel System Problem

Following some reading on an online forum I decided (mistakenly is seems) to open the drain cock under the fuel filter on my 1979 Series 3 2.25 Diesel, this allowed out a small amount of what seemed to be dirty water/diesel mix.

Then when attempting to start the car it fired straight away as usual but then died after a few seconds and refused to start although was turning over well. A little more reading on forums lead me to look into the possibility that the system would need to be primed as opening the drain cock may necessitate this.

Using the fuel lift pump I manually primed the system to the point that fuel was rising through the fuel pump (top nut). Another attempt was made to start but still nothing firing. As I was away on holiday and lacking in garage facilities I called on the AA to come and have a look. A very friendly ex-land rover owning AA patrol arrived and went through with me what I had done, he repeated the priming exercise and checked the supply all the way through the system. He found that whilst there was fuel passing through the filter and into the top of the injector distributor, very little if any was reaching the injectors (a dribble he said). The AA patrol did undo the top input nut on the injector distributor and from what I have been able to ascertain online this is the correct place to disconnect to manually prime and rid the system of any air.

The AA patrol advised the in his opinion the fault lay with the distributor pump and whilst he was surprised as these did not often fail, he was unable to think that it could be anywhere else.

Whilst the distributor may have failed I do wonder if there are any other parts of the fuel system that should have been opened during priming to clear air from the system. Does anyone have a view on this?

Also the CAV distributor pumps do not seem as readily available as other parts for the Series 3, is there a reason for this or are they generally just rebuilt?



(less on learnt – don’t attempt maintenance that you are not used to when miles out in the countryside on a campsite!)

There's 2 bleed screws on the injector pump that need bleeding.

Spyderman said:

There's 2 bleed screws on the injector pump that need bleeding.

Click to expand...

Is one of these the nut shown to the left of the CAV plate on the following photo? (if so where is the other?)

Picasa Web Albums - James Game

you allowed air into the system!
what you should have done-
drain off as you did.
crack the filter top union and hand pump till bubbleless fuel emerges.

what you did and what to do next-
as you had let air in, when you ran the engine, this air is then taken with fuel to the injector pump. 2.25 diesel dont self bleed air out so the pump tried compressing it to fire down the injector pipes. (about 2000psi)
as air compresses easily, this didnt open the injector and so stayed where it was, being compressed again and again.
so you have to treat it as a full bleed. start at the point where air has entered.
crack filter union. pump untill bubbleless fuel emerges.
crack low compression bleed on injector pump. (on the round body iirc) pump until...etc
crack high compression bleed on inj. pump. (on square box bit iirc) pump until...etc
nb- i may have got high and low wrong way round. both can be cracked at same time, nip when bubbleless ...etc
it may start at this point, if not slacked an injector union at head. turn over on starter as pump relies on engine turning to compress fuel.
it has been know to have to slacken all injector unions to purge air out of injector pipes.
it may start as this is being performed, nip injectors carefully.

notes-
ensure engine stop in in!!! (not out or halfway in, check on lever on pump thats its returning to run position)
keep hands / skim away from high pressure diesel. it WILL penetrate the skin!
if still stubborn starting, get someone turn it over while you watch the tail pipe.
signs of smoke comin out means fuel getting into cylinders.
no smoke usually = no fuel.

happy bleeding.

edit- forgot to say anywhere to "nip it up after bubbleless fuel emerges"

Thank you both for your advice, I do hope that it is an air blockage as having seen the price of these pumps I'm surprised!

I am still wanting to confirm that the two nuts I need to crack are the correct ones, the following images show the ones that I think are being referred to, can anyone confirm these are the right ones to open?

Picasa Web Albums - James Game

Picasa Web Albums - James Game

WellWhoKnows said:

Thank you both for your advice, I do hope that it is an air blockage as having seen the price of these pumps I'm surprised!

I am still wanting to confirm that the two nuts I need to crack are the correct ones, the following images show the ones that I think are being referred to, can anyone confirm these are the right ones to open?

Picasa Web Albums - James Game

Picasa Web Albums - James Game

Click to expand...

Do the first pictured one first, until air free fuel comes out. Try and start it. if that doesn't work do the second pictured one also, then if necessary move onto the injectors individually.

Spyderman said:

Do the first pictured one first, until air free fuel comes out. Try and start it. if that doesn't work do the second pictured one also, then if necessary move onto the injectors individually.

Click to expand...

i thought it was the other way round.
if you do both at once, nip up the one that bubbles stop from first, then keep bleeding till bubbles stop from the other.

nb.
once had bleeding problem where only way to start engine was to drag motor fairly fast with another motor, and bump start in 2nd gear. turned engine over fast enough for long enough to compress air and force it thru injectors. left it running entire weekend cos worried it wouldnt start again.

Maybe you're right, I just do it till I get diesel ****ing everywhere without air bubbles.

Well thanks everyone for your advice, seems that I might have been barking up the wrong tree as she was out of fuel (I now know the fuel gauge reads 1/4 when is in fact empty)

Diesel now added but unfortunately she still refuses to start, I have bled all the bit suggested and have fuel all the way through the system (cracking the injectors shows fuel as a dribble around the thread). I have turned her over and over (brand new battery) and still no joy...

I think now it's time for me to call in an expert, there is one garage near me that I've been told know about Landy's but if anyone else knows of any good garages in south essex (Thurrock/Basildon area) then I would appreciate hearing of them.

Without seeing the "dribble" its difficult to ascertain whether or not it's giving a good enough flow, though you would have thought it would have started and ran rough even with a small amount of diesel coming through.

Might be worth checking that the fuel filter hasn't got clogged up with the dregs of the tank when you ran it dry, thus not giving a decent flow.

If you're still erring on the side of injector pump, the way I've checked these before is to remove the injector lines and hold a decent sized clean rag over the pump outlet and see how saturated it gets....admittedly this is on low revving static diesels/canal engines so might be dangerous on a Landy!

no sign of smoke from the tail pipe?

nrgserv said:

no sign of smoke from the tail pipe?

Click to expand...

Nope not that I noticed

still a fuelling issue then.

is this thread still active?

Check the stop control.

Hi there
Had similar problems last year and kept on bleeding for weeks and nearly killed my battery and still it wouldn't start. Wrongly assumed it was the pump too. Getting air out is a BA#*~#D.

Save yourself lots of time and effort and get a friend to tow you around for 5 mins with a decent rope or strop with yours in 2nd or 3rd gear and ignition on and it'll bleed itself! The pump will force all the air out and it should fire up. Simples!!!

Hope it helps
Cheers
Dave

Just to put this one to bed, I found a really helpful local garage who have their own Landy's and lots of experience, its great to know that I have such a resource local to me, The vehicle was recovered on their own trailer and the air lock sorted quickly at the workshop.

If there are other owners in and around Thurrock then I must recommend C Y Repair Services, 6 Curzon Drive, Grays, 01375 37155

I hope recommending businesses is accepted here.

My first post after the welcome. Being new to this vehicle I bought the Haynes manual and I am also stumped by the priming. Excuse the basic question but what and where is the fuel pump hand priming lever?

daboom said:

My first post after the welcome. Being new to this vehicle I bought the Haynes manual and I am also stumped by the priming. Excuse the basic question but what and where is the fuel pump hand priming lever?

Click to expand...

may be better to start a new thread, instead of resurecting an old one!

in answer to the question, (an i'm sure google or search would bring an answer!), but the fuel pump hand priming lever is a manually operated lever, used to pull fuel from the tank to the injector pump, instead of the running engine doing it. it is located underneath the fuel pump, mounted to the rear left of the engine block, and has 2 fuel pipes attached to it. the running engine and the hand prime lever operate the same machanism, it isnt 2 seperate pumps.
note, that early pumps pull fuel on the up stroke, later pumps pull fuel on the down stroke.
this is assuming you have a 2.25 diesel engine.

oh and :welcome2:

I've managed to have a similar problem with my Series 2a, fitted with a 15J 2.5 litre NA diesel. Changed the filter, then spotted glass sedimenter was dirty so cracked that open, cleaned it and put it back. Tried to bleed the system, thought it was OK but engine ran for a few seconds and died. So air probably everywhere. Big problem is that no matter what I try I can't get the lift pump to pull fuel through. The inlet pipe to the lift pump remains empty and the lever is soft all the while.Somehow it gets some fuel to the filter, with occasional bubbles out the top union, and mostly fills the glass sedimenter. But the fuel circuit seems to remain empty. Have check the pipe from the tank but it's clear - and empty.
The pump sucks on it's inlet port but when connected isn't pulling fuel through. I'm mystified - any thoughts out there?

pump runs at 135 bar ,bleed screw on round body is the one you need to bleed it s not necessary to do one on govenor housing,