Series 3 88" 200tdi coil sprung.

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Russell tsr

New Member
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Location
Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Im looking at buying a galv chassis 88" with disco 200tdi, R380 box and axles. Its currently just a rolling chassis so wondering what it will look like when its done. Has anyone got any pictures of anything similar they have?

Thanks

Russell
 
Coil sprung series' are always a but dubious. It might be a shortened disco or a 90 chassis, particularly if it's galvanised.
You are allowed to replace a chassis for a new one and keep the original numberplate. But if it's a modified chassis or one for a different vehicle, legal issues abound. Particularly if the series plate has allowed the vehicle to claim tax exemption as the registered keeper could be held liable for back-payments. The vehicle will also end up on a Q-plate.

So find out the exact details of its history before you even think about buying. There are other, more legitimate, projects out there.
 
A 200tdi with an r380 box is also not a combination ever offered by land rover so I would suggest that what you are buying is a pile of parts to build a "kit car". Even if it comes with ID it will not be valid and will need a q plate whick will invole getting it registered and passing the relevant (and stringent) tests.
 
dag019 said:
A 200tdi with an r380 box is also not a combination ever offered by land rover so I would suggest that what you are buying is a pile of parts to build a "kit car". Even if it comes with ID it will not be valid and will need a q plate whick will invole getting it registered and passing the relevant (and stringent) tests.
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Yes it was. LR replaced LT-77's in some vehicles under warranty with R380's, they are known as short bellhousing or "stumpy" R380's. :)

https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/manual-gearboxes/short-bellhousing-r380.html
 
FlyingPete said:
Coil sprung series' are always a but dubious. It might be a shortened disco or a 90 chassis, particularly if it's galvanised.
You are allowed to replace a chassis for a new one and keep the original numberplate. But if it's a modified chassis or one for a different vehicle, legal issues abound. Particularly if the series plate has allowed the vehicle to claim tax exemption as the registered keeper could be held liable for back-payments. The vehicle will also end up on a Q-plate.

So find out the exact details of its history before you even think about buying. There are other, more legitimate, projects out there.
Click to expand...
I will agree it is a grey area, but it most certainly isn't black and white that it will be a Q plate.

Places like Designa chassis offer new 88" coiler chassis (I think this might be what the op is looking at, as there was one on ebay a few weeks back). This is not a chassis for another vehicle, it is purpose built as a direct replacement for the original 88" chassis.

That and what constitutes as a change or modification is not well defined by the DVSA. So largely replies on personal interpretation.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Places like Designa chassis offer new 88" coiler chassis (I think this might be what the op is looking at, as there was one on ebay a few weeks back). This is not a chassis for another vehicle, it is purpose built as a direct replacement for the original 88" chassis.
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Thats true but what about the axles etc, discs not drums, and then engine and gearbox? If theres nothing on it thats original then its bound to be a Q plate.
 
Russell tsr said:
Im looking at buying a galv chassis 88" with disco 200tdi, R380 box and axles. Its currently just a rolling chassis so wondering what it will look like when its done. Has anyone got any pictures of anything similar they have?

Thanks

Russell
Click to expand...
In answer it depends.....

And the reason for this is down to several things.

-such as where the engine is located relative to the body
-same with the gearbox

Then what you plan to do with it body wise. You could make it look like a completely standard Series 2 or 3 SWB, although the wider axles will need some sort of wheel arch spat to cover the wheels in the UK.

Many 88 coilers fit a Defender style front panel and bonnet (rad moved forward like a 90, not inset). This is because depending on where the engine is actually located you may not have much room in front of it.

Defender wings and doors could also be fitted.

It would also be possible to make it look like a Series 1 88", either as a standard vehicle or as a trials style vehicle.

e.g.





Or you could make it look like a Tomcat.
2bc2767c09c7965d788e14da9e900d63.jpg
 
Well I can confirm that it is a brand new 88" coil chassis, it is a friend of mine that is selling it and he has had it for years but never got around to finishing it, i was actually there when he bought the chassis new! As for the engine and axles both came from a 200tdi disco the gearbox I presume a later disco but can't recall. He has the complete series 3 vehicle that including the ID just had a rotten chassis hence the new one.
 
300bhp/ton said:
In answer it depends.....

And the reason for this is down to several things.

-such as where the engine is located relative to the body
-same with the gearbox

Then what you plan to do with it body wise. You could make it look like a completely standard Series 2 or 3 SWB, although the wider axles will need some sort of wheel arch spat to cover the wheels in the UK.

Many 88 coilers fit a Defender style front panel and bonnet (rad moved forward like a 90, not inset). This is because depending on where the engine is actually located you may not have much room in front of it.

Defender wings and doors could also be fitted.

It would also be possible to make it look like a Series 1 88", either as a standard vehicle or as a trials style vehicle.

e.g.





Or you could make it look like a Tomcat.
2bc2767c09c7965d788e14da9e900d63.jpg
Click to expand...


Thanks for the pictures I would want to keep it looking pretty standard if I'm honest but use it for alot of towing so seemed to be a good choice as is looks like the series 3 but drives like a defender which I currently have. The engine and gearbox are in place and the front end it on so it seems to fit behind the standard grill ok.
 
Rodeo Joe said:
Thats true but what about the axles etc, discs not drums, and then engine and gearbox? If theres nothing on it thats original then its bound to be a Q plate.
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Brakes make no odds at all.

To retain the ID it needs the original chassis and then a number of components such as engine, gearbox, steering, axles, suspension.

I'm not saying it should be one way or another, just that nothing is 100% clear on this.

Axles... well there is a claim to say the axles are the same, they use the same diff centres and are pretty much the same items. You could, if you wanted extend the axle tubes on a Series axle and fit the correct hub.

Similar with engines. The 200Tdi uses the same basic block as the 2.25 petrol and diesel Series engines. If you wanted, you could take a 2.25 and essentially build it into a Tdi with the right bits.

Suspension hasn't changed. The Series uses a "live axle suspension" system, as opposed to say an independent suspension system. It has retained this, it has only changed the spring type, not the suspension type.

Chassis, well it uses a box section ladder chassis. You could argue that it has retained all the standard body mounting outriggers and rear crossmember/body mounting. All of the chassis bits in between are simply repair sections made to the same box section to join all of the outriggers together. The only alteration is the addition of an upper spring seat, but as this isn't usually seen as a structural part of the chassis, it would typically be allowed such as new shock mounts or roll cage mounts would be.


The only real change is the gearbox. Although on this one I think it could be argued that the Defender is a continuation of the Series production and could be seen as a model that started production 1958.

And depending on what is done with the steering, this too could be a change.
 
To be honest the gearbox does not have to be an R380 I have an LT77 lying at the house it was just the box that was currently in it. I was under the impression thats these modifications would only affect its ability to claim MOT exception not to keep the vehicle ID. But I must have picked that up incorrectly.

Thanks

Russell
 
Russell tsr said:
To be honest the gearbox does not have to be an R380 I have an LT77 lying at the house it was just the box that was currently in it. I was under the impression thats these modifications would only affect its ability to claim MOT exception not to keep the vehicle ID. But I must have picked that up incorrectly.

Thanks

Russell
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Have a look here:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-vehicles

If you want to tow, you'll want to check the Series 3 tow ratings out, they are different to a Defender. Mostly between what you can tow with override brakes vs coupled brakes.
 
I'm sure that points table has changed, be intersting to see one from a few years ago. I'm sure it didn't have "or new and unmodified (direct from the manufacturer)" and its interesting to see what they mean by "direct from the manufacturer" since that will often not be the OEM for the vehicle. The 5 points for the chassis leaves little room for manouvre since there's not many reasons to fit a modified chassis with std axles and suspension which comes to 9. Even if you go modified chassis / std axles but mod suspension (7) you are stuck wiith the std transmision (2). It seems to boil down to orginal chassis and steering and you can have any axles/suspension and engine, or modified chassis and one more mod or its a Q plate.
 
I knew someone who built a caterham a few years ago, using a ford Sierra for most of the donor bits and a Mondeo engine. To avoid the Q-plate, he first put the mondeo engine in the sierra (whether it actually went in or not doesn't really matter) then took it apart for parts. Because everything then came from one donor vehicle, it could take the reg from the sierra.
If the engine number matches the number on the V5, then using it is ok and should count towards the points. Likewise you might be able to argue that the original chassis had the R380 fitted before the chassis swap.

But it does sound dubious from a legal perspective.
 
So much of this seems to be down to interpretation. Who is the person who actually decides if it qualifies or not? As far as the chassis being " original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)" surely this is not possible being you cant buy a new chassis from Land Rover no?
 
Russell tsr said:
So much of this seems to be down to interpretation. Who is the person who actually decides if it qualifies or not? As far as the chassis being " original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)" surely this is not possible being you cant buy a new chassis from Land Rover no?
Click to expand...

Exactly why most people would avoid it like the plague............... unless you're a masochist.
 
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