Potential new Series 2a owner with questions on powerplant and drivetrain

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Bezdonian

Bezdonian

Active Member
Posts
89
Location
Canterbury
Good Morning everyone
Due to a new job (which requires me to travel in the Ulez everyday thanks Khan) sadly my 1993 110 CSW daily driver isn't going to cut it anymore. So it could go up for sale in the near future.
After looking around I've decided to follow in my families footsteps and may have an opportunity to buy a Series 2a diesel 109 station wagon.
The reason for this is I don't like the more modern land rovers and anything built after 1983 isn't viable in the Ulez unless its got a V8 and fuel economy like that will kill my finances.
That and I really like the Series 2, it to me is the most iconic land rover.
But I am aware that the 2.25 diesel isn't really viable to keep up with modern traffic on motorways i.e. (55-60 cruise speed 70mph tops for overtaking Hgvs). So what engine would you recommend? I was thinking a defender 200tdi (which I am familiar with as its what's powering my defender) with standard gearbox (Obviously an overhaul) and the Ashcroft high ratio gears for the transfer box. Also Autosparks offer a 200 tdi loom for the 2a and Richard Chassis could modify a galv chassis to accommodate the new engine.
Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm new to Series 2s but very familiar with its younger sibling.
 
My first thought is to not drive in London if at all possible! But that may not be viable given that the ULEZ now reached out to the M25.

I would perhaps look out for a petrol model instead. It will have enough 'go' to be adequate without having to resort to major modifications. Fuel economy will be a bit worse, but you can buy a lot of petrol for the savings on buying and overhauling an engine and gearbox.
 
FlyingPete said:
My first thought is to not drive in London if at all possible! But that may not be viable given that the ULEZ now reached out to the M25.

I would perhaps look out for a petrol model instead. It will have enough 'go' to be adequate without having to resort to major modifications. Fuel economy will be a bit worse, but you can buy a lot of petrol for the savings on buying and overhauling an engine and gearbox.
Click to expand...
Good point, but finding a 109 station wagon that isn’t a barn find or completely restored which would be outside my price range is quite hard these days as I do want to do some internal and external modifications to make it a comfortable daily driver.
Would it be easier if I simply bought a 2.25 petrol an ancillaries then added the higher gears for the transfer box?
 
If your commute involves a lot of miles requiring 60-70 for me that would be a bit hairy with Series steering and brakes, low range might be useful in slow london Traffic, might a historic car be more appropriate, turning circle not great either.
you can fit an overdrive as standard as another option with the petrol to get better gearing
 
steve2286w said:
If your commute involves a lot of miles requiring 60-70 for me that would be a bit hairy with Series steering and brakes, low range might be useful in slow london Traffic, might a historic car be more appropriate, turning circle not great either.
you can fit an overdrive as standard as another option with the petrol to get better gearing
Click to expand...
Thanks for your suggestion. Thankfully I’m only really going a few miles into London (Biggin Hill) to work so it’s still fairly rural at that point. I definitely agree with fitting a petrol and overdrive. I’m just looking at options for the moment as I want to keep the vehicles historic status to keep it exempt.
 
steve2286w said:
If your commute involves a lot of miles requiring 60-70 for me that would be a bit hairy with Series steering and brakes, low range might be useful in slow london Traffic, might a historic car be more appropriate, turning circle not great either.
you can fit an overdrive as standard as another option with the petrol to get better gearing
Click to expand...
Don't see why it would be hairy?
 
Bezdonian said:
Good Morning everyone
Due to a new job (which requires me to travel in the Ulez everyday thanks Khan) sadly my 1993 110 CSW daily driver isn't going to cut it anymore. So it could go up for sale in the near future.
After looking around I've decided to follow in my families footsteps and may have an opportunity to buy a Series 2a diesel 109 station wagon.
The reason for this is I don't like the more modern land rovers and anything built after 1983 isn't viable in the Ulez unless its got a V8 and fuel economy like that will kill my finances.
That and I really like the Series 2, it to me is the most iconic land rover.
But I am aware that the 2.25 diesel isn't really viable to keep up with modern traffic on motorways i.e. (55-60 cruise speed 70mph tops for overtaking Hgvs). So what engine would you recommend? I was thinking a defender 200tdi (which I am familiar with as its what's powering my defender) with standard gearbox (Obviously an overhaul) and the Ashcroft high ratio gears for the transfer box. Also Autosparks offer a 200 tdi loom for the 2a and Richard Chassis could modify a galv chassis to accommodate the new engine.
Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm new to Series 2s but very familiar with its younger sibling.
Click to expand...
How many miles are you doing? A diesel 109 will be a long way off a Tdi 110 CSW in terms of comfort and refinement. As for speed, no chance! Not with the diesel. The petrol will cruise at 55-60mph, but any quicker and you are thrashing it. Don't think the diesel will be anywhere close to wanting to run at 60mph.

Tdi is an option, but tbh they are even less refined are really quite noisy in a Series. Way more so than in a Defender.

Not saying you shouldn't do this, but commuting in a 109 over any distance daily is pretty hardcore.
 
Bezdonian said:
Good point, but finding a 109 station wagon that isn’t a barn find or completely restored which would be outside my price range is quite hard these days as I do want to do some internal and external modifications to make it a comfortable daily driver.
Would it be easier if I simply bought a 2.25 petrol an ancillaries then added the higher gears for the transfer box?
Click to expand...
I had an SIII with 200tdi and 90/100 diffs with an overdrive. (And the twin leading shoe front brakes). It was ok for 80ish max and 70 cruise but the noise was intolerable and so used decent ear defenders or headphones for any distance.

The petrol 2.25 is streets ahead on engine noise but still not great on transmission din and you won't be comfortable at 50. I'd suggest changing the diffs and/or an overdrive. Whether it's overdrive, diffs or hight ratio transfer ox they're all around the 30% mark, but price is a factor and I'd suggest going for diffs for the sake of budget, or an overdrive unit which gives a far better spread of ratios.
 
boguing said:
I had an SIII with 200tdi and 90/100 diffs with an overdrive. (And the twin leading shoe front brakes). It was ok for 80ish max and 70 cruise but the noise was intolerable and so used decent ear defenders or headphones for any distance.

The petrol 2.25 is streets ahead on engine noise but still not great on transmission din and you won't be comfortable at 50. I'd suggest changing the diffs and/or an overdrive. Whether it's overdrive, diffs or hight ratio transfer ox they're all around the 30% mark, but price is a factor and I'd suggest going for diffs for the sake of budget, or an overdrive unit which gives a far better spread of ratios.
Click to expand...
What diff would you recommend? and as you said money is a factor too. Is the 200tdi gearbox destroyer myth a real thing or just superstition to put people off converting it?
 
300bhp/ton said:
How many miles are you doing? A diesel 109 will be a long way off a Tdi 110 CSW in terms of comfort and refinement. As for speed, no chance! Not with the diesel. The petrol will cruise at 55-60mph, but any quicker and you are thrashing it. Don't think the diesel will be anywhere close to wanting to run at 60mph.

Tdi is an option, but tbh they are even less refined are really quite noisy in a Series. Way more so than in a Defender.

Not saying you shouldn't do this, but commuting in a 109 over any distance daily is pretty hardcore.
Click to expand...
I'm going to be doing about 10000 miles a year. Mostly from Canterbury to Biggin 2 times a week then a short trip from Biggin to work. I do plan on adding sound deadening and insolation where possible. Then overhauling the heater with an uprated matrix and fan. Freewheeling hubs and an overdrive or higher gear transfer. That's why the engine is the main issue really and would changing it to say a 200tdi make it lose its historic status?
 
Problem with running old cars as dailys is, you will spend every weekend tweaking them ready for the next weeks run.

Do some research as I think def 200 inj pump fouls chassis on 109, and disco 200 turbo fouls chassis other side, but can be shimmed up to clear.
Take a look at the glencoyne website, and terri ann land rover site as she has Glens 109 with 200 as a how to story.

I am in Maidstone if you want to look at an 88 with a 200 fitted.

200 will also need 3.54 diffs as std diffs top out at 60 mph with the tdi screaming, I also run 85/140 in the diffs to help with any shock loading.

This is the link to Glens engine conversion, he used to be on the s2 forum, and was very helpful with info when I asked him.
Iirc he used to live Canterbiury way then went down Dover area.
 
Bezdonian said:
What diff would you recommend? and as you said money is a factor too. Is the 200tdi gearbox destroyer myth a real thing or just superstition to put people off converting it?
Click to expand...
Standard is 4.7:1, from the 90/110/RRC they got 3.54. No other choices.

Well, I drove mine pretty hard and didn't have any problem, so I doubt they go bang, more like wear faster.
 
Bezdonian said:
I'm going to be doing about 10000 miles a year. Mostly from Canterbury to Biggin 2 times a week then a short trip from Biggin to work. I do plan on adding sound deadening and insolation where possible. Then overhauling the heater with an uprated matrix and fan. Freewheeling hubs and an overdrive or higher gear transfer. That's why the engine is the main issue really and would changing it to say a 200tdi make it lose its historic status?
Click to expand...
Don't bother with freewheeling hubs. The work done in turning the front diff and prop is trivial - try spinning the wheels when the front's jacked up!

I'm saving you a fortune here. Mind you, you're going to need it.
 
Bezdonian said:
I'm going to be doing about 10000 miles a year. Mostly from Canterbury to Biggin 2 times a week then a short trip from Biggin to work. I do plan on adding sound deadening and insolation where possible. Then overhauling the heater with an uprated matrix and fan. Freewheeling hubs and an overdrive or higher gear transfer. That's why the engine is the main issue really and would changing it to say a 200tdi make it lose its historic status?
Click to expand...
Its not just sound dedending, but the whole refinement. Don't get me wrong, I loved my 200Tdi Series III 88 and I did a lot of miles in it. But it was hugely unrefined and noisy. If circumstances hadn't forced me to sell it, I was planning on fitting a 2.0 t-Series petrol engine.

Power is no problem with a Tdi. I did fit some Range Rover/Ninety 3.54:1 diffs, this gives you better cruising ability. Topped 92 on the GPS I believe..... ;)


But if I'm honest it didn't drive as well. As you end up with a large gap between 3rd and 4th, meaning 3rd gear for 30mph and feeling like you are revving it. I'd think in traffic this would not be very good. It also made 1st taller to pull away in, again something likely to be less good in stop/start traffic. My plan, again if I'd kept it, was to go back to 4.7:1 diffs and fit an overdrive.

Not saying you shouldn't do it. But a 4hr-5 1/2hr motorway trip in a Series isn't likely to be all that pleasurable.
 
lynall said:
Problem with running old cars as dailys is, you will spend every weekend tweaking them ready for the next weeks run.

Do some research as I think def 200 inj pump fouls chassis on 109, and disco 200 turbo fouls chassis other side, but can be shimmed up to clear.
Take a look at the glencoyne website, and terri ann land rover site as she has Glens 109 with 200 as a how to story.

I am in Maidstone if you want to look at an 88 with a 200 fitted.

200 will also need 3.54 diffs as std diffs top out at 60 mph with the tdi screaming, I also run 85/140 in the diffs to help with any shock loading.

This is the link to Glens engine conversion, he used to be on the s2 forum, and was very helpful with info when I asked him.
Iirc he used to live Canterbiury way then went down Dover area.
Click to expand...
Your right about having to tweak the 2.25 engine every week, where as the 200tdi just needs the odd oil top up and alternator adjustment every week. I'll have to look into whether the injection pump fouls the chassis or not but hopefully won't need to much work if needed. I'll also look at the 3.54 diffs and the 85/140s too. Thanks for the suggestions so far, I'm learning a lot.
 
Mostly vehicles cutting in forcing me to brake hard with longer stopping distances than normal,
being passed by HGV causing a bit of steering wander particularly when windy would cause squeaky bum moment comfortable at 55 stressful at 70 if mine would do that but that’s me
 
Bezdonian said:
Your right about having to tweak the 2.25 engine every week, where as the 200tdi just needs the odd oil top up and alternator adjustment every week. I'll have to look into whether the injection pump fouls the chassis or not but hopefully won't need to much work if needed. I'll also look at the 3.54 diffs and the 85/140s too. Thanks for the suggestions so far, I'm learning a lot.
Click to expand...
Cant have def 200 alt in its normal position as I think it fouls engine mount? disco 200 version mounted much higher, but the disco 200 alt belt set up is proper crap, and needs constant tlc.

Front diff is an easy swap as the axle casing also has a fill/level plug, rear axle casing does not, so you need an early rr diff with same level/filler set up as the series or you will have to weld in a level bung, some people just fill up via the half shaft, which sounds a right ball ache to me.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Its not just sound dedending, but the whole refinement. Don't get me wrong, I loved my 200Tdi Series III 88 and I did a lot of miles in it. But it was hugely unrefined and noisy. If circumstances hadn't forced me to sell it, I was planning on fitting a 2.0 t-Series petrol engine.

Power is no problem with a Tdi. I did fit some Range Rover/Ninety 3.54:1 diffs, this gives you better cruising ability. Topped 92 on the GPS I believe..... ;)


But if I'm honest it didn't drive as well. As you end up with a large gap between 3rd and 4th, meaning 3rd gear for 30mph and feeling like you are revving it. I'd think in traffic this would not be very good. It also made 1st taller to pull away in, again something likely to be less good in stop/start traffic. My plan, again if I'd kept it, was to go back to 4.7:1 diffs and fit an overdrive.

Not saying you shouldn't do it. But a 4hr-5 1/2hr motorway trip in a Series isn't likely to be all that pleasurable.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I think you might be right about the gaps in the gears if the ratio is higher. The lt77 on mine in 1st is so low that you can pull away in 2nd, so I imaging its like that for 1st in yours. Also given how often the gear changes are, when did full syncro gearboxes arrive for the Series IIa and can they be converted to full syncro with an older box?
 
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