Series 2a Towing Weights (Previous threads notwithstanding! :-)

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R

Ruaridh

Guest
I have read and digested many of the old threads on this subject here,
some of which became rather acrimonious! So I'll keep it simple and I
don't think this question has been asked.
Please no input about tachographs / trailer brakes / driving licenses,
I've got that covered!!
I understand that old Landrover manuals quote a max.drawbar pull which
is more to do with what can be physically moved in 1st low than what
can legally be towed (which was probably less of an issue back then).
More modern handbooks (and vehicle plates) quote gross train weight.
What I want to know is what numbers are generally on the plates
attached to the bulkead (or by seats etc.) on 2a or early series 3's?
(If they exist)
Do they quote this same old-fashioned drawbar pull? Or do they show max
axle weights and a gross train weight?
If so, what is the usual available trailer weight? It looks worryingly
like under 2000kgs from some postings.
I was wanting to embark on a 2a project to replace my ageing 2.5 Mits.
Pajero, which I'd be willing to argue in court is demonstrably legal to
tow 3300kgs from it's vehicle plate.
While I don't do it very often, I was hoping a 2a would give me about 3
tonnes legally, is this too much to ask?
(P.S. I used to tow large boat trailers and other heavy things many
years ago with a 2a so am not really worried about the practicalities
of it. I would also be using a more powerful engine, before you ask!)
Thanks for any input,
Ruaridh.

 
2 tons (British tons that is) on the bulkhead plate of my series 3

I think it is usually calculated by some formula as to the maximum you can
pull from a standing start on a 1 in 8 slope or something like that.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"Ruaridh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have read and digested many of the old threads on this subject here,
> some of which became rather acrimonious! So I'll keep it simple and I
> don't think this question has been asked.
> Please no input about tachographs / trailer brakes / driving licenses,
> I've got that covered!!
> I understand that old Landrover manuals quote a max.drawbar pull which
> is more to do with what can be physically moved in 1st low than what
> can legally be towed (which was probably less of an issue back then).
> More modern handbooks (and vehicle plates) quote gross train weight.
> What I want to know is what numbers are generally on the plates
> attached to the bulkead (or by seats etc.) on 2a or early series 3's?
> (If they exist)
> Do they quote this same old-fashioned drawbar pull? Or do they show max
> axle weights and a gross train weight?
> If so, what is the usual available trailer weight? It looks worryingly
> like under 2000kgs from some postings.
> I was wanting to embark on a 2a project to replace my ageing 2.5 Mits.
> Pajero, which I'd be willing to argue in court is demonstrably legal to
> tow 3300kgs from it's vehicle plate.
> While I don't do it very often, I was hoping a 2a would give me about 3
> tonnes legally, is this too much to ask?
> (P.S. I used to tow large boat trailers and other heavy things many
> years ago with a 2a so am not really worried about the practicalities
> of it. I would also be using a more powerful engine, before you ask!)
> Thanks for any input,
> Ruaridh.
>


 

"Ruaridh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have read and digested many of the old threads on this subject here,
> some of which became rather acrimonious! So I'll keep it simple and I
> don't think this question has been asked.
> Please no input about tachographs / trailer brakes / driving licenses,
> I've got that covered!!
> I understand that old Landrover manuals quote a max.drawbar pull which
> is more to do with what can be physically moved in 1st low than what
> can legally be towed (which was probably less of an issue back then).
> More modern handbooks (and vehicle plates) quote gross train weight.
> What I want to know is what numbers are generally on the plates
> attached to the bulkead (or by seats etc.) on 2a or early series 3's?
> (If they exist)
> Do they quote this same old-fashioned drawbar pull? Or do they show max
> axle weights and a gross train weight?
> If so, what is the usual available trailer weight? It looks worryingly
> like under 2000kgs from some postings.
> I was wanting to embark on a 2a project to replace my ageing 2.5 Mits.
> Pajero, which I'd be willing to argue in court is demonstrably legal to
> tow 3300kgs from it's vehicle plate.
> While I don't do it very often, I was hoping a 2a would give me about 3
> tonnes legally, is this too much to ask?
> (P.S. I used to tow large boat trailers and other heavy things many
> years ago with a 2a so am not really worried about the practicalities
> of it. I would also be using a more powerful engine, before you ask!)
> Thanks for any input,
> Ruaridh.

If you accept the figures from the Land Rover Series III Workshop manual see
pdf page 26 (04-12 ) on public roads you can tow 3500kg but only with
coupled brakes, overrun brakes 2000kg, no brakes 500kg (supply your own
Holy Book)
http://www.landrover.ee/est/files/manuals/cars/sIII/SIII_ROM_Part_1.pdf

Derek


 
"Derek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> If you accept the figures from the Land Rover Series III Workshop manual
see
> pdf page 26 (04-12 ) on public roads you can tow 3500kg but only with
> coupled brakes, overrun brakes 2000kg, no brakes 500kg (supply your own
> Holy Book)

I read the same but have no idea what "coupled brakes" means, could someone
please explain?
Greg


 
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:00:13 +0100, "Greg"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Derek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> If you accept the figures from the Land Rover Series III Workshop manual
>see
>> pdf page 26 (04-12 ) on public roads you can tow 3500kg but only with
>> coupled brakes, overrun brakes 2000kg, no brakes 500kg (supply your own
>> Holy Book)
>
>I read the same but have no idea what "coupled brakes" means, could someone
>please explain?

Brakes which operate off the main vehicle brakes - like a lorry
trailer.

Alex
 
Greg wrote:

> I read the same but have no idea what "coupled brakes" means, could someone
> please explain?
> Greg

Trailer brakes that are directly linked to the towing vehicle's
braking system and do not rely on an overrun mechanism to apply the
trailer brakes.

Such systems allow the trailer brakes to apply without the trailer
having to be decelerated. You can apply the trailer brakes at rest by
applying the tow vehicle brake.
 
"Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Trailer brakes that are directly linked to the towing vehicle's
> braking system and do not rely on an overrun mechanism to apply the
> trailer brakes.

Ah, I see, but in what form did Land rover expect these to be fitted to a
series 3 when they wrote the manual?. Were air brakes some sort of optional
extra :cool:
Greg


 
Greg wrote:

> Ah, I see, but in what form did Land rover expect these to be fitted to a
> series 3 when they wrote the manual?. Were air brakes some sort of optional
> extra :cool:

Yes they were :)

Was looking at a badly messed up 90 truck cab the other month which had
air brakes fitted to it. Had it not been perched on top of 3 other
vehicles and had I more time I'd have had them....

Most 5th wheel trailers that go behind LRs (not that there are many of
them) have air brakes. Americans are very keen on electric brakes on
their vehicles, which can also be close coupled.

Regards

William MacLeod

 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greg wrote:
>
> > Ah, I see, but in what form did Land rover expect these to be fitted to
a
> > series 3 when they wrote the manual?. Were air brakes some sort of
optional
> > extra :cool:
>
> Yes they were :)

Is there anything that hasn't been fitted to a Land Rover ?, yes I know,
silly question :cool:
Greg


 
On 29 Aug 2006 11:36:20 -0700, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Most 5th wheel trailers that go behind LRs (not that there are many of
>them)


Dixon Bate and a firm with scot* in the name made them, I still see
some 90s with 5th wheel pulling starter gates for horse racing around.

In theory a 90 with 5th wheel should give the maximum payload for a
vehicle in the <7.5 tonne class but I thought it required a HGV 1a
license to drive.

AJH
 
The recommended weight though is 2 non metric tons, I suppose that has
something to do with the oft quoted caravanners maxim of never towing more
than 85% of the kerb weight of the car.

I think the 3.5 metric tonne thing is more of a universal legal requirment
without the said air brakes, and I dare say if you fit them there is no
reason why you can't pull a road train :) not that you would be going
anywhere fast if you did.

I would guess that 3.499999999999999999999999999999999999999 tonnes is legal
without even with a robin reliant.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"Derek" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ruaridh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> If you accept the figures from the Land Rover Series III Workshop manual
see
> pdf page 26 (04-12 ) on public roads you can tow 3500kg but only with
> coupled brakes, overrun brakes 2000kg, no brakes 500kg (supply your own
> Holy Book)
> http://www.landrover.ee/est/files/manuals/cars/sIII/SIII_ROM_Part_1.pdf
>
> Derek
>
>


 
Electric brakes are not acceptable in the UK.

It is amazing actually that production cars in the US could legally tow 40ft
airstream trailers with electric brakes, but such a combination would be
illegal over here and most of Europe?

Why? I doubt if safety has anything to do with it at all.

Of course if you happen to be a gypo, you can get away with anything.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greg wrote:
>
>
> Yes they were :)
>
> Was looking at a badly messed up 90 truck cab the other month which had
> air brakes fitted to it. Had it not been perched on top of 3 other
> vehicles and had I more time I'd have had them....
>
> Most 5th wheel trailers that go behind LRs (not that there are many of
> them) have air brakes. Americans are very keen on electric brakes on
> their vehicles, which can also be close coupled.
>
> Regards
>
> William MacLeod
>


 
[email protected] wrote:

> Greg wrote:
>
>> Ah, I see, but in what form did Land rover expect these to be fitted to a
>> series 3 when they wrote the manual?. Were air brakes some sort of
>> optional extra :cool:
>
> Yes they were :)
>
> Was looking at a badly messed up 90 truck cab the other month which had
> air brakes fitted to it. Had it not been perched on top of 3 other
> vehicles and had I more time I'd have had them....
>
> Most 5th wheel trailers that go behind LRs (not that there are many of
> them) have air brakes. Americans are very keen on electric brakes on
> their vehicles, which can also be close coupled.
>
> Regards
>
> William MacLeod

Certainly in Australia in Series 3 times the norm would have been vacuum
brakes rather than air, since you don't need to add a compressor. In about
the last twenty years these have been replaced by electric brakes, as these
are a lot easier to fit - wires are easier to run than pipes and hoses.
JD
 
Greg wrote:
> "Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>The recommended weight though is 2 non metric tons
>
>
> Actually the manual specifically says 2000kg which is 2 metric tonnes for
> over-run brakes on-road, the link is here:
> http://www.landrover.ee/est/files/manuals/cars/sIII/SIII_ROM_Part_1.pdf
> and it's about half way down the pdf
>
> Greg
>
>
AIUI the metric and non-metric ton(ne) are virtually the same anyway.
Ah yes, UK ton = 2242 lbs, metric tonne = 2202 lbs.

Stuart
 
Srtgray wrote:

> AIUI the metric and non-metric ton(ne) are virtually the same anyway. Ah
> yes, UK ton = 2242 lbs, metric tonne = 2202 lbs.
>
> Stuart

Well, almost. UK ton = 2240 lb
metric tonne = 1000 kg = 2204 lb approx
 

Larry wrote:

> I would guess that 3.499999999999999999999999999999999999999 tonnes is legal
> without even with a robin reliant.
>
>
Interesting discussion.....I knew it would descend into trailer
brakes!!!!!! :)
I've decided it's not worth the risk so have had to forget about the
free tax and have bought an old D-reg 90 for my project. It's plate
clearly shows the 3500kg capacity.
Just as a footnote, I wonder about the opinion above from Larry - I've
seen this stated a few places but I'm not sure. As I understand it,
cars are NOT allowed to tow things that are heavier than them? 4WDs
seem to be allowed to tow bigger weights because of the (generally)
heavier chassis, suspension, wheels etc. The 3.5 tonne over-run brake
limit is sort of a maximum when everything else is covered.
But in all cases if a manufacturers maximum is stated this would take
precedence. I can't imagine anyone successfully arguing in court that
an "interpretation" of the rules that says anything can tow 3500kg
would be accepted when a makers plate or instruction book clearly
stated 2000kg.
This is what I mean about it not being woth the risk. Are others
generally in agreement here?
Cheers,
Ruaridh.

 
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