Second Seven Bridge Toll Charge

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puffernutter

Guest
I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW) and a
car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.

Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the bonnet.
When I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only charge me
£4.80, but it should have been £9.60 because I had a wheel on the bonnet.

I was advised to remove it before I came through next time (if I only
want to pay £4.80)

Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?

Cheers

Peter

Who also has an Austin A40 Farina now!
 
puffernutter wrote:

> I was advised to remove it before I came through next time (if I only
> want to pay £4.80)

Do just that - but right in front of the toll booth, take your time and
craete as much disruption as possible.
 
puffernutter wrote:
> I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW) and a
> car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.
>
> Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the bonnet.
> When I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only charge me
> £4.80, but it should have been £9.60 because I had a wheel on the bonnet.
>
> I was advised to remove it before I came through next time (if I only
> want to pay £4.80)
>
> Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
>
> Who also has an Austin A40 Farina now!

I'm not absolutely certain about this, but I have been told that there
is a height sensor on the approach to each pay booth and if your vehicle
triggers the sensor then it is assumed to be a van.

When I was a transport officer in the TA we used to have plenty of
arguements with the bridge operator about this as older Defenders (spare
on the bonnet) would be charged van rates and Wolf's (or is that
Wolves?) with the spare on the side would only have to pay as a car. We
always lost the arguement BTW :-(

--
Regards

Steve G
 
SteveG wrote:

> puffernutter wrote:
>
>> I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW) and
>> a car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.
>>
>> Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the bonnet.
>> When I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only charge me
>> £4.80, but it should have been £9.60 because I had a wheel on the bonnet.
>>
>> I was advised to remove it before I came through next time (if I only
>> want to pay £4.80)
>>
>> Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> Who also has an Austin A40 Farina now!
>
>
> I'm not absolutely certain about this, but I have been told that there
> is a height sensor on the approach to each pay booth and if your vehicle
> triggers the sensor then it is assumed to be a van.
>
> When I was a transport officer in the TA we used to have plenty of
> arguements with the bridge operator about this as older Defenders (spare
> on the bonnet) would be charged van rates and Wolf's (or is that
> Wolves?) with the spare on the side would only have to pay as a car. We
> always lost the arguement BTW :-(

I believe that this applies on the M6 toll road too. The vehicle height
is measured at the front axle location and, obviously, a bonnet-mounted
spare adds about 9 inches putting the measured height into the next (or
even higher) charge band.

It's an attempt to catch and charge higher rates for vans (and 101s!).
It's a blatent rip-off to attempt to make money when the offending
dimension is not 'permanent'.

The toll attendant on this occasion should be congratulated for his/her
common sense. However those that employ them should be castigated (even
the other similar word!) for their money grabbing policy.
 

"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%7%[email protected]...
>I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW) and a
>car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.
>
> Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the bonnet. When
> I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only charge me £4.80, but
> it should have been £9.60 because I had a wheel on the bonnet.
>
> I was advised to remove it before I came through next time (if I only want
> to pay £4.80)
>
> Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?
>

I was under the impression that all Land Rover Series and Defenders were
regarded as commercial apart from the SWB Station Wagon which has never been
regarded as 'commercial' and is not VAT reclaimable. The actual use of the
vehicle is not important, just the type.

Huw


 
A mate of mine had a similar problem at the toll booths, he had a Series 3 with a hard back (no windows but wheel on bonnet) and they wanted him to pay the van rate! Argued the toss and paid the Car rate, now he uses the "coin bin" without stopping at the manned booths! So far no problem!

I 2nd what Dougal said! "Do just that - but right in front of the toll booth, take your time and create as much disruption as possible.
 
Huw wrote:

> "puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%7%[email protected]...
>
>>I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW) and a
>>car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.
>>
>>Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the bonnet. When
>>I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only charge me £4.80, but
>>it should have been £9.60 because I had a wheel on the bonnet.
>>
>>I was advised to remove it before I came through next time (if I only want
>>to pay £4.80)
>>
>>Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?
>>
>
>
> I was under the impression that all Land Rover Series and Defenders were
> regarded as commercial apart from the SWB Station Wagon which has never been
> regarded as 'commercial' and is not VAT reclaimable. The actual use of the
> vehicle is not important, just the type.
>
> Huw

These tolls are typically based purely on size but, as we've seen, there
can be some anomalies. Small forward control vehicles are one,
non-permanent variations to the vehicle silhouette create another.

A typical charging regime is expalined here:
http://www.m6toll.co.uk/pricing/vehicleclass.asp

.... then go to the "If you're unsure of which class your vehicle fits"
link half way down the page.
 
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:44:53 +0000, Dougal wrote:

> I believe that this applies on the M6 toll road too. The vehicle
> height is measured at the front axle location and, obviously, a
> bonnet-mounted spare adds about 9 inches putting the measured height
> into the next (or even higher) charge band.

What about those flat nosed people carrier things? What about little
escort type vans? In this day an age an automatic system should be
able to easyly and accurately identify the vast majority of vehicles
on the road.

> It's an attempt to catch and charge higher rates for vans (and
> 101s!). It's a blatent rip-off to attempt to make money when the
> offending dimension is not 'permanent'.

Or even pertinent. Surely the defination of a "van" is an enclosed
rear section without windows.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:15:09 +0000, Dougal wrote:

>> I was advised to remove it before I came through next time (if I
>> only want to pay £4.80)
>
> Do just that - but right in front of the toll booth, take your time
> and craete as much disruption as possible.

I like the idea but that bit of road is classed as motorway thus
stopping is a no no except in emergency. I don't think getting charged
the right amount for the crossing would be considered an emergency...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
I once did a U turn in my limo at the toll booths on the Humber Bridge.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:15:09 +0000, Dougal wrote:


I like the idea but that bit of road is classed as motorway thus
stopping is a no no except in emergency. I don't think getting charged
the right amount for the crossing would be considered an emergency...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail




 
I would guess that because a landrover is still technically a car and the
spare wheel is not a permanent part of the structure one could get ones
money back later if one took the trouble.

Maybe one of the motoring organisations ought to take this up so that we can
all have a piece of paper to wave at the toll booth attendent mandating him
to charge the sensible rate.

Whichever way crossing at the Bridge is going to cost less than going the
long way round considering the average petrol/diesel consumption of a
landie.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes





"Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I believe that this applies on the M6 toll road too. The vehicle height
> is measured at the front axle location and, obviously, a bonnet-mounted
> spare adds about 9 inches putting the measured height into the next (or
> even higher) charge band.
>
> It's an attempt to catch and charge higher rates for vans (and 101s!).
> It's a blatent rip-off to attempt to make money when the offending
> dimension is not 'permanent'.
>
> The toll attendant on this occasion should be congratulated for his/her
> common sense. However those that employ them should be castigated (even
> the other similar word!) for their money grabbing policy.


 
Not on the M6 Toll last time I was there (with spare wheel still on roof)


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I was under the impression that all Land Rover Series and Defenders were
> regarded as commercial apart from the SWB Station Wagon which has never
been
> regarded as 'commercial' and is not VAT reclaimable. The actual use of the
> vehicle is not important, just the type.
>
> Huw
>
>


 
Huw wrote:
> "puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%7%[email protected]...
>
>>I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW) and a
>>car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.
>>
>>Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the bonnet. When
>>I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only charge me £4.80, but
>>it should have been £9.60 because I had a wheel on the bonnet.
>>
>>I was advised to remove it before I came through next time (if I only want
>>to pay £4.80)
>>
>>Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?
>>
>
> I was under the impression that all Land Rover Series and Defenders were
> regarded as commercial apart from the SWB Station Wagon which has never been
> regarded as 'commercial' and is not VAT reclaimable. The actual use of the
> vehicle is not important, just the type.
>
> Huw

Huw is closer to the mark over the Severn Bridge charging regime than I
had realised and at first sight it differs somewhat from the M6 Toll.

http://www.severnbridge.co.uk/toll_prices.shtml

Based on that there may be arguments over 'commerciality' and side
windows but the bonnet-mounted spare wheel shouldn't enter into the
discussion.

As usual it's a shambles!
 
Dougal wrote:
> Huw wrote:
>> "puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:%7%[email protected]...
>>
>>> I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW)
>>> and a car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.
>>>
>>> Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the
>>> bonnet. When I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only
>>> charge me £4.80, but it should have been £9.60 because I had a
>>> wheel on the bonnet. I was advised to remove it before I came through
>>> next time (if I
>>> only want to pay £4.80)
>>>
>>> Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?
>>>
>>
>> I was under the impression that all Land Rover Series and Defenders
>> were regarded as commercial apart from the SWB Station Wagon which
>> has never been regarded as 'commercial' and is not VAT reclaimable.
>> The actual use of the vehicle is not important, just the type.
>>
>> Huw
>
> Huw is closer to the mark over the Severn Bridge charging regime than
> I had realised and at first sight it differs somewhat from the M6
> Toll.
> http://www.severnbridge.co.uk/toll_prices.shtml
>
> Based on that there may be arguments over 'commerciality' and side
> windows but the bonnet-mounted spare wheel shouldn't enter into the
> discussion.

I was pretty well spot on Istm. Lucky guess based on experience rather than
reading the rules.



>
> As usual it's a shambles!

Only in as much as the rules vary. This should not be any more surprising
than that the tolls vary.
What does concern me though is that my Range Rover's bonnet could height
promote it to a higher toll charge on the M6. Will have to remember to
measure carefully or avoid the road if in the area.

Huw


 
Huw wrote:
> Dougal wrote:
>
>>Huw wrote:
>>
>>>"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:%7%[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW)
>>>>and a car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.
>>>>
>>>>Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the
>>>>bonnet. When I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only
>>>>charge me £4.80, but it should have been £9.60 because I had a
>>>>wheel on the bonnet. I was advised to remove it before I came through
>>>>next time (if I
>>>>only want to pay £4.80)
>>>>
>>>>Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I was under the impression that all Land Rover Series and Defenders
>>>were regarded as commercial apart from the SWB Station Wagon which
>>>has never been regarded as 'commercial' and is not VAT reclaimable.
>>>The actual use of the vehicle is not important, just the type.
>>>
>>>Huw
>>
>>Huw is closer to the mark over the Severn Bridge charging regime than
>>I had realised and at first sight it differs somewhat from the M6
>>Toll.
>>http://www.severnbridge.co.uk/toll_prices.shtml
>>
>>Based on that there may be arguments over 'commerciality' and side
>>windows but the bonnet-mounted spare wheel shouldn't enter into the
>>discussion.
>
> I was pretty well spot on Istm. Lucky guess based on experience rather than
> reading the rules.
>
>>As usual it's a shambles!
>
> Only in as much as the rules vary. This should not be any more surprising
> than that the tolls vary.

Except that the rules that the Severn Bridge do publish make no mention
of measuring the vehicle height at the first axle and Peter's situation
could come about in no other way as they specifically mentioned 'wheel
on the bonnet'.

> What does concern me though is that my Range Rover's bonnet could height
> promote it to a higher toll charge on the M6. Will have to remember to
> measure carefully or avoid the road if in the area.
>
> Huw
 
In message <[email protected]>, Huw
<hedydd@[nospam].invalid> writes
>Dougal wrote:
>> Huw wrote:
>>> "puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:%7%[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW)
>>>> and a car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.
>>>>
>>>> Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the
>>>> bonnet. When I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only
>>>> charge me £4.80, but it should have been £9.60 because I had a
>>>> wheel on the bonnet. I was advised to remove it before I came through
>>>> next time (if I
>>>> only want to pay £4.80)
>>>>
>>>> Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I was under the impression that all Land Rover Series and Defenders
>>> were regarded as commercial apart from the SWB Station Wagon which
>>> has never been regarded as 'commercial' and is not VAT reclaimable.
>>> The actual use of the vehicle is not important, just the type.
>>>
>>> Huw
>>
>> Huw is closer to the mark over the Severn Bridge charging regime than
>> I had realised and at first sight it differs somewhat from the M6
>> Toll.
>> http://www.severnbridge.co.uk/toll_prices.shtml
>>
>> Based on that there may be arguments over 'commerciality' and side
>> windows but the bonnet-mounted spare wheel shouldn't enter into the
>> discussion.
>
>I was pretty well spot on Istm. Lucky guess based on experience rather than
>reading the rules.
>
>
>
>>
>> As usual it's a shambles!
>
>Only in as much as the rules vary. This should not be any more surprising
>than that the tolls vary.
>What does concern me though is that my Range Rover's bonnet could height
>promote it to a higher toll charge on the M6. Will have to remember to
>measure carefully or avoid the road if in the area.
>
>Huw
>
>
M6 toll just simply works on height of bodywork above front wheels, so
MPVs can get caught out as well as LRs with spare wheel on bonnet.

That's the way it is. It's a privately operated road so if you don't
like it.......
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
hugh wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>, Huw
> <hedydd@[nospam].invalid> writes
>> Dougal wrote:
>>> Huw wrote:
>>>> "puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:%7%[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> I went across the Second Severn Bridge today with Reggie (110 CSW)
>>>>> and a car trailer to collect the A40 Farina from Aberystwyth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reggie is greedy and has a spare wheel on the back AND on the
>>>>> bonnet. When I got to the toll booth I was told that he would only
>>>>> charge me £4.80, but it should have been £9.60 because I had a
>>>>> wheel on the bonnet. I was advised to remove it before I came
>>>>> through next time (if I
>>>>> only want to pay £4.80)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody have any clue as to the logic behind this?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was under the impression that all Land Rover Series and Defenders
>>>> were regarded as commercial apart from the SWB Station Wagon which
>>>> has never been regarded as 'commercial' and is not VAT reclaimable.
>>>> The actual use of the vehicle is not important, just the type.
>>>>
>>>> Huw
>>>
>>> Huw is closer to the mark over the Severn Bridge charging regime
>>> than I had realised and at first sight it differs somewhat from the
>>> M6 Toll.
>>> http://www.severnbridge.co.uk/toll_prices.shtml
>>>
>>> Based on that there may be arguments over 'commerciality' and side
>>> windows but the bonnet-mounted spare wheel shouldn't enter into the
>>> discussion.
>>
>> I was pretty well spot on Istm. Lucky guess based on experience
>> rather than reading the rules.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> As usual it's a shambles!
>>
>> Only in as much as the rules vary. This should not be any more
>> surprising than that the tolls vary.
>> What does concern me though is that my Range Rover's bonnet could
>> height promote it to a higher toll charge on the M6. Will have to
>> remember to measure carefully or avoid the road if in the area.
>>
>> Huw
>>
>>
> M6 toll just simply works on height of bodywork above front wheels, so
> MPVs can get caught out as well as LRs with spare wheel on bonnet.
>
> That's the way it is. It's a privately operated road so if you don't
> like it.......

Well I pay road tax and huge amounts of fuel duty on my vehicles already and
they seldom use a motorway. On principle I will try and avoid the toll road
in the same way as I try and avoid the bridge.
It is not that long ago that social unrest closed most of the country's old
toll gates and I expect every freedom loving citizen to react in the same
way to any effort to toll us in future. We already pay a stupidly high rate
of tax on our travelling in the UK. Enough is enough.

Huw


 


> I'm not absolutely certain about this, but I have been told that there
> is a height sensor on the approach to each pay booth and if your vehicle
> triggers the sensor then it is assumed to be a van.
> Regards
>
> Steve G

AFAIK the Severn Bridge tolls operate on a weight system. For example,
small corsa van costs car rate through auto toll, but go and talk to a human
and it costs van money!. Mate of mine got caught doing just this, paid car
rates through auto toll and thought all was well....until he gets a letter
from Severn Bridge people saying he's been a naughty boy and can he please
pay a £40 fine!

I avoid all costs by going down A48.

Dom J



 
Dougal wrote:

>
>
> Huw is closer to the mark over the Severn Bridge charging regime than I
> had realised and at first sight it differs somewhat from the M6 Toll.
>
> http://www.severnbridge.co.uk/toll_prices.shtml
>
> Based on that there may be arguments over 'commerciality' and side
> windows but the bonnet-mounted spare wheel shouldn't enter into the
> discussion.
>
> As usual it's a shambles!

How many seats in a 110 CSW? If more than 9 then they can charge the
'Category 2' Rate.

--
Regards

Steve G
 
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