Sad but really annoying

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Badger wrote:

> Put your flame-proof suit away mate, never a truer word said and all that.
> If the parents are chain-smoking lazy-arsed couch potatoes, what the hell
> sort of role model do the kids have to learn from? I agree we need a greater
> police presence on the streets and that ain't happening unless we sack a few
> dozen councillors and mp's and use their wages to fund the extra coppers,
> now there's an idea... The coulcillors and mp's remaining would then have to
> get their fingers out and do some ****ing work for a change!
> A change in the law to allow simple, workable (there's the key!) prosecution
> of the parents for not instilling discipline in their own would go a long
> way, but there's still the issue of the kids being angels at home and the
> parents that genuinely don't know what their "little darlings" are up to.
> I, personally, have my own answer. A friend of mine lives in an area that I
> wouldn't want to. Nowhere near as bad as some down south, but not the best
> place locally. Small estate, there's been incidents of bricks through
> windscreens, keyed paintwork and even a car torched. I made sure that the
> local "thugs" (uneducated, unloved, unwashed layabout kids) all knew me on
> sight and to talk to, and also made it common knowledge that if anyone dared
> to touch my motor I'd hunt them down, decapitate their limbs and make them
> ****ing well eat them! The one that got cheeky got a swift kick in the nuts
> and smack in the mouth for good measure - his mates then realised I meant
> what I said and everything's just fine. I'm not saying that's what should be
> done in every case, but it worked for me as a deterrent. Biggest problem is
> lack of discipline, whether it be in the home or when out, and that's where
> a return to National Service would come in....
> Badger.

I know someone who took the same approach, forgetting of course that
the yobs all had dads too (admitedly not all their own of course!) who
didn't take kindly to it so put all his house windows through. His
reaction was to draft in his mates to intimidate them, and so it
escalated. I think the latest count is 3 sets of windows and a torched
car with no end in sight, hardly setting a good example to the youths
is it...
Greg

 

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Badger wrote:
>
> > Put your flame-proof suit away mate, never a truer word said and all
that.
> > If the parents are chain-smoking lazy-arsed couch potatoes, what the
hell
> > sort of role model do the kids have to learn from? I agree we need a
greater
> > police presence on the streets and that ain't happening unless we sack a
few
> > dozen councillors and mp's and use their wages to fund the extra
coppers,
> > now there's an idea... The coulcillors and mp's remaining would then
have to
> > get their fingers out and do some ****ing work for a change!
> > A change in the law to allow simple, workable (there's the key!)
prosecution
> > of the parents for not instilling discipline in their own would go a
long
> > way, but there's still the issue of the kids being angels at home and
the
> > parents that genuinely don't know what their "little darlings" are up
to.
> > I, personally, have my own answer. A friend of mine lives in an area
that I
> > wouldn't want to. Nowhere near as bad as some down south, but not the
best
> > place locally. Small estate, there's been incidents of bricks through
> > windscreens, keyed paintwork and even a car torched. I made sure that
the
> > local "thugs" (uneducated, unloved, unwashed layabout kids) all knew me
on
> > sight and to talk to, and also made it common knowledge that if anyone
dared
> > to touch my motor I'd hunt them down, decapitate their limbs and make
them
> > ****ing well eat them! The one that got cheeky got a swift kick in the
nuts
> > and smack in the mouth for good measure - his mates then realised I
meant
> > what I said and everything's just fine. I'm not saying that's what
should be
> > done in every case, but it worked for me as a deterrent. Biggest problem
is
> > lack of discipline, whether it be in the home or when out, and that's
where
> > a return to National Service would come in....
> > Badger.
>
> I know someone who took the same approach, forgetting of course that
> the yobs all had dads too (admitedly not all their own of course!) who
> didn't take kindly to it so put all his house windows through. His
> reaction was to draft in his mates to intimidate them, and so it
> escalated. I think the latest count is 3 sets of windows and a torched
> car with no end in sight, hardly setting a good example to the youths
> is it...
> Greg

Yes, you are right Greg, it isn't setting a good example. However, it's a
language they understand, and seeing as I'm roughly the same ages with most
of their dads (well, the ones that have, anyway) and not even remotely
likely to be intimidated by them that wasn't an issue in my case.
Problem is, simply explaining to them the outcome of their actions and
asking them to be nice to one another and respect other people's property
along the way (all in a wet liberal type of way, you understand ;-) ) just
doesn't work. They understand pain, hence the national service comments I
made earlier. Not being whacked across the shoulders by some massochistic
sergeant's pace-stick, those days have thankfully gone, but pain in the
sense of keeping going when you want to drop, the pain of letting your team
down, etc etc - that is what would hopefully change them and allow them to
become far better citizens within society, as per the comments made about
Bad Lads Army.
Badger.


 
Duracell Bunny wrote:

|| Greg wrote:
||| "William Black" <[email protected]> wrote in message
||| news:[email protected]...
|||
|||| In Filey Council employees
||| There's only one workable solution, more police presence, but no
||| matter what spin the government put on it that just isn't happening
||| 8-(.
|||
||| Greg
|||
|||
|| Simple solution - just pipe some Des O'Connor music loudly in the
|| areas that the youths inhabit. No-one in their right minds will
|| linger in the face of an assault like that.
||
|| Or is that cruel & inhumane treatment?

It's been done, sort of.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/....html?category=technology&guid=20060627114500

He even won the Ig Nobel Peace Prize for it:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2391171.html

I can't find the reference, but ISTR that he was advised by the authorities
that his device was dangerous and discriminatory, and he should not market
it. The phrase "cruel and unusual" did come into it, I think ...

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.


 
On 2006-11-02, Richard Brookman <[email protected]> wrote:

> It's been done, sort of.
>
> http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/....html?category=technology&guid=20060627114500

The problem with those teenage-scarers is that not all adults' hearing
deteriorates enough for them not to be affected. I can't stand "cat
scarers" which work on the same principle, I can quite clearly hear
the loud squealing sound they make and can hear whether a normal TV is
on even if it's not making any normal sound, due to the frequency of
the horizontal scanning deflector voltage cycling.

So no, crappy idea, designed to get some publicity, like that latest
stunt where people are "passing out" in cinemas while watching some
horror film or another.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On 1 Nov 2006 05:31:57 -0800, Greg wrote:

> ...there can be as few as 4 out on the streets.

FOUR! Luxury, the most there ever is round here is three but less than
that, including zero, is far more common. One is the norm outside of
"office hours".

> That's not the coverage that most people would consider sufficient for
> an area the size of this 8-(,

How big an area? I'm refering of 100 square miles plus.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> How big an area? I'm refering of 100 square miles plus.

According to the Council it's 320 square miles and 106,000 residents, not
counting the tourists, though I suspect Whitby is policed separately as it's
so remote.

Greg


 

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> How big an area? I'm refering of 100 square miles plus.
>
> According to the Council it's 320 square miles and 106,000 residents, not
> counting the tourists, though I suspect Whitby is policed separately as
> it's
> so remote.

We're actually talking about the town police station and its locally
deployed officers . This contains about 60,000 people and covers about six
square miles of urban development.

The divisional headquarters staff is within the town police station but it
also controls several smaller police stations at smaller communities within
the borough. Each if these has its own police officers.


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.




 
On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:15:24 -0000, Richard Brookman
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Duracell Bunny wrote:
>
> || Greg wrote:
> ||| "William Black" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> ||| news:[email protected]...
> |||
> |||| In Filey Council employees
> ||| There's only one workable solution, more police presence, but no
> ||| matter what spin the government put on it that just isn't happening
> ||| 8-(.
> |||
> ||| Greg
> |||
> |||
> || Simple solution - just pipe some Des O'Connor music loudly in the
> || areas that the youths inhabit. No-one in their right minds will
> || linger in the face of an assault like that.
> ||
> || Or is that cruel & inhumane treatment?
>
> It's been done, sort of.
>
> http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/....html?category=technology&guid=20060627114500

yes, but wasn't there some other folk (a shop?) that started piping
Radio-3 or somesuch to good effect.



--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8
 
In message <[email protected]>
"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > How big an area? I'm refering of 100 square miles plus.
>
> According to the Council it's 320 square miles and 106,000 residents, not
> counting the tourists, though I suspect Whitby is policed separately as it's
> so remote.
>
> Greg
>
>

And Whitby still has some very old emergency service vehicles still in
use. The documentary on Sunday nights shows the place to be very
quaintly old fashioned - I've not spotted any cameras, I'll have
a look this week.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
In message <[email protected]>
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Duracell Bunny wrote:
>
> || Greg wrote:
> ||| "William Black" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> ||| news:[email protected]...
> |||
> |||| In Filey Council employees
> ||| There's only one workable solution, more police presence, but no
> ||| matter what spin the government put on it that just isn't happening
> ||| 8-(.
> |||
> ||| Greg
> |||
> |||
> || Simple solution - just pipe some Des O'Connor music loudly in the
> || areas that the youths inhabit. No-one in their right minds will
> || linger in the face of an assault like that.
> ||
> || Or is that cruel & inhumane treatment?
>
> It's been done, sort of.
>
> http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/....html?category=technology&guid=20060627114500
>
> He even won the Ig Nobel Peace Prize for it:
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2391171.html
>
> I can't find the reference, but ISTR that he was advised by the authorities
> that his device was dangerous and discriminatory, and he should not market
> it. The phrase "cruel and unusual" did come into it, I think ...
>

That was outside the chip shop/Chinese in Brown Edge. It's gone
now (the unit, not the chippy!).

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
Certainly showed them they were not as hard as they thought they were,
however if ever I hear myself demanding a return to national service I will
know I have finally turned into my dad :(

--
Larry
Series 3 Rust and Holes

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2934707f4e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Badger" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Interestingly, I'd always thought the "National Service" idea was
> a load of "It were better in them days" stuff - until I watched
> the Bad Boys (I think it was called) where they did indeed do
> a Boot Camp routine on a group of yobs. It was remarkable watching
> the change come over them, and those that stayed were transformed -
> even becoming proud of their "uniform". It would be interesting
> if they did a follow up to see if the change was permenant, or
> even permanentish.
>
> Trouble is, it would cost too much, and we all like low taxes :-(
> The Army, quite rightly, wouldn't be the right place in this
> day and age I don't think - unless some sort of Not Quite TA
> was formed.
>
> Richard
> --
> www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
> www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
> Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive


 
And do Trillo's still have that LandRover Ice Cream wagon on the beach ?


--
Larry
Series 3 Rust and Holes

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c7abe47f4e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Greg" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> And Whitby still has some very old emergency service vehicles still in
> use. The documentary on Sunday nights shows the place to be very
> quaintly old fashioned - I've not spotted any cameras, I'll have
> a look this week.
>
> Richard
> --
> www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
> www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
> Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive


 

William Black wrote:

> We're actually talking about the town police station and its locally
> deployed officers . This contains about 60,000 people and covers about six
> square miles of urban development.
>
> The divisional headquarters staff is within the town police station but it
> also controls several smaller police stations at smaller communities within
> the borough. Each if these has its own police officers.

Well I can't quote chapter and verse on how it's all organised, but the
Parish Council have been told on several occasions that on a normal
shift there are only 8 uniformed officers available to patrol and
respond to incidents for all of Scarborough, Filey and all the villages
around them which is everything in the borough except Whitby!. Yes I
know there are stations in Filey and Eastfield, but our understanding
is that the 8 includes the officers based at these.

We've also been told that when officers are bogged down with
beurocratic paperwork it can easily drop to 4 and has on occasions been
just 2 available to respond. We can only go by what we're told and I
can't honestly see the figures being massaged down can you?.

Don't get me wrong, there's no criticism of the officers who do the
best they can in the circumstances, but we've publicly fallen out with
the Chief Constable over the lack of resources available to police the
villages. What we see is that there are only resources to clamp down on
trouble in one small area at a time, so the yobs just move around in
gangs to avoid this week's clamp down.

On an admittedly less serious subject, there's the ongoing farce
whereby the Chief Constable got rid of all but one traffic warden
nearly a year ago even though the Borough is not yet able to take over
parking enforcement. This has caused absolute chaos across the Borough
with people parking anywhere they wish and regularly causing a town or
village to gridlock. Yes I know there was a recent Police blitz on
parking but no one expects that to continue as they can't possibly
justify having officers regularly doing the job of wardens.

The bottom line is we need more officers, and with the millions spent
on the new Scarborough station, along with the satellite station, there
surely can't be any excuse that they haven't the facilities for them.

Greg

 

beamendsltd wrote:

> And Whitby still has some very old emergency service vehicles still in
> use. The documentary on Sunday nights shows the place to be very
> quaintly old fashioned - I've not spotted any cameras, I'll have
> a look this week.

I'm afraid I haven't been to Whitby in some time so don't know, but
cameras are almost certainly going to spread right out to the villages
because of the spiralling vandalism. We're not just talking about a bit
of graffity but systematic destruction of toilets, play ground
equipment, skate parks, trees, railings, seats, and even stoning of
council staff trying to repair them.

I'm sorry to go on about it all but it's quite sickening to see
everything people have worked hard for being wrecked by these yobs,
it's got to the point where people are deciding not to try and improve
anything becuse they know full well that it will be undone and the
Police can do nothing about it.

Greg

 

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> beamendsltd wrote:
>
> > And Whitby still has some very old emergency service vehicles
still in
> > use. The documentary on Sunday nights shows the place to be very
> > quaintly old fashioned - I've not spotted any cameras, I'll have
> > a look this week.
>
> I'm afraid I haven't been to Whitby in some time so don't know, but
> cameras are almost certainly going to spread right out to the
villages
> because of the spiralling vandalism. We're not just talking about a
bit
> of graffity but systematic destruction of toilets, play ground
> equipment, skate parks, trees, railings, seats, and even stoning of
> council staff trying to repair them.
>
> I'm sorry to go on about it all but it's quite sickening to see
> everything people have worked hard for being wrecked by these yobs,
> it's got to the point where people are deciding not to try and
improve
> anything becuse they know full well that it will be undone and the
> Police can do nothing about it.
>
> Greg
>

And it all started with too much political correctness, and not
allowing parents and teachers to apply proper discipline. When I was a
kid, I knew where the line was and what would happen if I crossed it.
Now it's a soft spongy grey area with comfort zones <G>

AWEM


 

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> On an admittedly less serious subject, there's the ongoing farce
> whereby the Chief Constable got rid of all but one traffic warden
> nearly a year ago even though the Borough is not yet able to take over
> parking enforcement. This has caused absolute chaos across the Borough
> with people parking anywhere they wish and regularly causing a town or
> village to gridlock. Yes I know there was a recent Police blitz on
> parking but no one expects that to continue as they can't possibly
> justify having officers regularly doing the job of wardens.

Well there's a reason for this.

The traffic wardens were actually due to be phased out by May this year and
the borough were due to take over responsibility for parking control under a
'decriminalisation' scheme.

But, and it's a huge 'but', they seem to have made a complete mess of the
legalities of it (nothing new there...) and so none of the various
contractors will touch it with the proverbial barge pole.

There's a license to print money for the people who get to control the
parking in Scarborough, but, as usual, the council legal department have
smudged the license...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.





 
In message <[email protected]>, GbH
<[email protected]> writes
>Badger wrote:
>> "beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:e1f6607f4e%[email protected]...
>>> In message <[email protected]>
>>> "Greg" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "William Black" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> In Filey Council employees
>>>>>> have recently been stoned by groups of yobs, and in this village
>>>>>> we are seeing a steady increase in yob vandalism and arson. Sadly
>>>>>> the cameras are rarely manned, and the yobs know it, or simply
>>>>>> don't care.
>>>>>
>>>>> The camera feeds are recorded.
>>>>
>>>> A while ago we were told that that they weren't because no one
>>>> would even pay for the tapes!, quite how true that was I don't
>>>> know. But even if they are taped it's little use when there's no
>>>> one to point and zoom them in on an incident, a camera recording a
>>>> wide shot right down Westborough say is of no practical use as the
>>>> images will not be good enough to identify anyone, they have to be
>>>> controlled to get identifiable pictures so do nothing but prove
>>>> there was an incident. Popular TV has it that they can just take an
>>>> image and 'enhance' it until they get a good picture, Torchwood is
>>>> a good example, but that's science fiction pure and simple I'm
>>>> afraid.
>>>>
>>>> A few weeks ago I was told personally by a County Councillor that
>>>> there had been several incidents around town, right in the view of
>>>> the cameras, yet they were absolutely no help to the police. I have
>>>> yet so see any one of the camers actually move!, and that means
>>>> people are wise to it and take little notice.
>>>>
>>>> I've just come from a rather heated Council meeting where we had a
>>>> couple of dozen youths and a few parents all claiming that it
>>>> wasn't THEM doing the vandalising and arson in the village, some
>>>> pointing fingers at each other and claiming they had witnesses, all
>>>> very unpleasant. But the fact remains that we have a growing
>>>> problem with youths congregating in gangs, apparently there are two
>>>> rival gangs here, fighting, vadalising and starting fires.
>>>>
>>>> There's only one workable solution, more police presence, but no
>>>> matter what spin the government put on it that just isn't happening
>>>> 8-(.
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm proabably going to get into big trouble for this, but here
>>> goes....
>>>
>>>> There's only one workable solution, more police presence, but no
>>>> matter what spin the government put on it that just isn't happening
>>>> 8-(.
>>>
>>> It's not the Police - it's the *parent(s)*. They need to get of their
>>> arses and go and find their kids if they don't know where they are or
>>> what they are doing. Apart from anything else, the humiliation factor
>>> soon breaks up the gangs.
>>>
>>> Flame proof suit donned.
>>
>> Put your flame-proof suit away mate, never a truer word said and all
>> that. If the parents are chain-smoking lazy-arsed couch potatoes,
>> what the hell sort of role model do the kids have to learn from? I
>> agree we need a greater police presence on the streets and that ain't
>> happening unless we sack a few dozen councillors and mp's and use
>> their wages to fund the extra coppers, now there's an idea... The
>> coulcillors and mp's remaining would then have to get their fingers
>> out and do some ****ing work for a change!
>> A change in the law to allow simple, workable (there's the key!)
>> prosecution of the parents for not instilling discipline in their own
>> would go a long way, but there's still the issue of the kids being
>> angels at home and the parents that genuinely don't know what their
>> "little darlings" are up to. I, personally, have my own answer. A
>> friend of mine lives in an area that I wouldn't want to. Nowhere near
>> as bad as some down south, but not the best place locally. Small
>> estate, there's been incidents of bricks through windscreens, keyed
>> paintwork and even a car torched. I made sure that the local "thugs"
>> (uneducated, unloved, unwashed layabout kids) all knew me on sight
>> and to talk to, and also made it common knowledge that if anyone
>> dared to touch my motor I'd hunt them down, decapitate their limbs
>> and make them ****ing well eat them! The one that got cheeky got a
>> swift kick in the nuts and smack in the mouth for good measure - his
>> mates then realised I meant what I said and everything's just fine.
>> I'm not saying that's what should be done in every case, but it
>> worked for me as a deterrent. Biggest problem is lack of discipline,
>> whether it be in the home or when out, and that's where a return to
>> National Service would come in....
>> Badger.
>
>Hmm. Train the little thugs in unarmed combat? maybe?
>
Or teach them to do as they are f****** told without question, that
their opinions do not matter one iota and they are the most
insignificant little scroats on the planet. In other words to undo all
the damage done by the current PC education and parenting guidelines.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
In message <[email protected]>
"William Black" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On an admittedly less serious subject, there's the ongoing farce
> > whereby the Chief Constable got rid of all but one traffic warden
> > nearly a year ago even though the Borough is not yet able to take over
> > parking enforcement. This has caused absolute chaos across the Borough
> > with people parking anywhere they wish and regularly causing a town or
> > village to gridlock. Yes I know there was a recent Police blitz on
> > parking but no one expects that to continue as they can't possibly
> > justify having officers regularly doing the job of wardens.
>
> Well there's a reason for this.
>
> The traffic wardens were actually due to be phased out by May this year and
> the borough were due to take over responsibility for parking control under a
> 'decriminalisation' scheme.
>
> But, and it's a huge 'but', they seem to have made a complete mess of the
> legalities of it (nothing new there...) and so none of the various
> contractors will touch it with the proverbial barge pole.
>
> There's a license to print money for the people who get to control the
> parking in Scarborough, but, as usual, the council legal department have
> smudged the license...
>

Serious question - if parking is so lucrative, why on earth
isn't the council doing it?

And getting that bloody awful cafe/arcade in middle of the seafront
sorted out.....

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ecaf87f4e%[email protected]...

> Serious question - if parking is so lucrative, why on earth
> isn't the council doing it?

They are.

Half their incomes from parking fees.

> And getting that bloody awful cafe/arcade in middle of the seafront
> sorted out.....

Which one?

There are several that meet that description.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.




 

"William Black" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:ecaf87f4e%[email protected]...
>
>> Serious question - if parking is so lucrative, why on earth
>> isn't the council doing it?
>
> They are.
>
> Half their incomes from parking fees.
>
>> And getting that bloody awful cafe/arcade in middle of the seafront
>> sorted out.....
>
> Which one?
>
> There are several that meet that description.
>
> --
> William Black
>
>
> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> Time for tea.
>
>
>
>

He'll be meaning the horrid one half way round the North bay, i presume!!


 
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