running disco without viscous fan

now the winter is approaching i am looking at ways of warming the engine
faster seen as i only do a short journey to work. not got around to fitting
electric fans yet but will i get away with taking the viscous fan off
anyway. the only problem i can see is if i get stuck in traffic picking he
mrs up from town every evening usually traffic is not normally that bad
but you can get stuck in queues for 10-15 minutes sometimes.

paul

"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> now the winter is approaching i am looking at ways of warming the engine
> faster seen as i only do a short journey to work. not got around to
> fitting electric fans yet but will i get away with taking the viscous fan
> off anyway. the only problem i can see is if i get stuck in traffic
> picking he mrs up from town every evening usually traffic is not
> normally that bad but you can get stuck in queues for 10-15 minutes
> sometimes.

If the thermostat is working properly, then the coolant won't get to the
radiator until it has reached the thermostat's opening (and hence engine
operating) temperature anyway, so what can you possibly hope to achieve by
removing the fan, unless there is a fault elsewhere?
There is a popular misconception that viscous fans rob power, over-cool or
under-cool engines and generally cause slower warming up, all bull****! A
properly operating viscous unit robs virtually zero power from the engine as
the fan is in freewheel mode the vast majority of the time anyway, being
rotated more due to airflow as mph increases than by engine rpm.
If you must try to get a warmer engine in a shorter timeframe, fit a kenlowe
(or similar) hotstart unit.
In severe cold weather situations (Alaska, Canada, Siberia, Northern
Scandinavia, etc) the super-chilled airflow around the engine bay can
effectively overcool an engine, the answer is a radiator blind to prevent
the airflow, not fan removal.
Badger.

Badger wrote:
> There is a popular misconception that viscous fans rob power, over-cool or
> under-cool engines and generally cause slower warming up, all bull****!

So why do they use electric fans not viscous ones ?

Steve

On or around Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:26:52 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>If the thermostat is working properly, then the coolant won't get to the
>radiator until it has reached the thermostat's opening (and hence engine
>operating) temperature anyway, so what can you possibly hope to achieve by
>removing the fan, unless there is a fault elsewhere?

not blowing cold air over the engine block.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:38:58 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:26:52 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>If the thermostat is working properly, then the coolant won't get to the
>>radiator until it has reached the thermostat's opening (and hence engine
>>operating) temperature anyway, so what can you possibly hope to achieve by
>>removing the fan, unless there is a fault elsewhere?
>
>not blowing cold air over the engine block.

On or around Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:26:52 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>There is a popular misconception that viscous fans rob power, over-cool or
>under-cool engines and generally cause slower warming up, all bull****! A
>properly operating viscous unit robs virtually zero power from the engine as
>the fan is in freewheel mode the vast majority of the time anyway, being
>rotated more due to airflow as mph increases than by engine rpm.

ah, but how many are "properly operating"? I've only ever had 2 that I was
convinced about.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849

>If the thermostat is working properly, then the coolant won't get to the
>radiator until it has reached the thermostat's opening (and hence engine
>operating) temperature anyway, so what can you possibly hope to achieve by
>removing the fan, unless there is a fault elsewhere?

not blowing cold air over the engine block.
--
if it cold outside and your are moving you'll get cold air blown over the block any way whether the fan is working or not or indeedy if its there or not.
as yer man says fit a rad blind or stick a bit of cardboard in front of the radiator. .;wot i does if its really cold in the morning is start the engine about 10 mins before i intend to leave, that way not only is the engine warm but so is the inside of the car , and the windows are cleared of mist,snow or ice.

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:44:00 +0100, "Paul" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>now the winter is approaching i am looking at ways of warming the engine
>faster seen as i only do a short journey to work. not got around to fitting
>electric fans yet but will i get away with taking the viscous fan off
>anyway. the only problem i can see is if i get stuck in traffic picking he
>mrs up from town every evening usually traffic is not normally that bad
>but you can get stuck in queues for 10-15 minutes sometimes.
>
>paul
>


Last year the viscous coupling packed up on my 3.9, so a nice new pair
of Kenlowe electrics were fitted, - and that was the start of my
problems.

Initially I began to have starting problems when the engine was hot,
especially after being stuck in traffic for a long time.

Local agents couldn't find anything wrong on the test box, but it was
hinted that fuel vapourisation could be the problem.

The next service passed all emissions tests ok, but it was noted that
the auto trans fluid was beginning to darken as if overheated.

Contacting Kenlowe received advice of lowering the cut in temperature
of the fans to just above the halfway mark on the temp gauge, this was
well below the 'N' on the Kenlowe thermostat.

The starting problem became much worse over the summer, so when the
car went in for the 'call back' petrol tank change, they spent more
time on the engine systems and proved that the injectors were leaking
and that fuel rail pressure was leaking into the inlet manifold when
the engine was switched off.

Tests on the auto trans fluid definately showed overheating, and as
the transmission oil cooler is part of the main radiator the faults
were put down to little or no airflow going through the radiator
during traffic jam periods, apparently even a freewheeling fan causes
some airflow.

The injectors were sent for cleaning, but were returned as
unserviceable as they were leaking too badly, and it was suggested
that overheating of the plastic bodies could be the cause (?)

The cure - 8 new injectors, transmission fluid and filter change, and
a new viscous coupling. Just like driving a new car, and 2 mpg more!!

My advice - leave it as it was designed to be, and get a new coupling.
Paddocks do a new one for a much better price than the agents.

During stardate Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:40:54 +0000 (UTC), Lofty
<[email protected]> uttered the imortal words:


>My advice - leave it as it was designed to be, and get a new coupling.
>Paddocks do a new one for a much better price than the agents.
>

I put a home compiled fan on my old V8 Rangie, used a Range rover temp
switch from an EFI. Only difference was the noise reduced from the
engine bay. Other than that a waste of time and effort.

Lee D
--
"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters."
- Frank Lloyd Wright (1868-1959)

www.lrproject.com
'76 101 Camper
'64 88" IIa V8 Auto
'97 Disco ES Auto LPG'd
'01 Laguna

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:26:52 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>If the thermostat is working properly, then the coolant won't get to the
>>radiator until it has reached the thermostat's opening (and hence engine
>>operating) temperature anyway, so what can you possibly hope to achieve by
>>removing the fan, unless there is a fault elsewhere?
>
> not blowing cold air over the engine block.

But if you read on, Austin, I covered that point further down. Simply
removing the fan doesn't help as the air still flows as you are moving.
There is enough airflow to cool a 3.5 v8 with no fan at all at speeds of
25mph and over, as I found out when a lecky fan went phut on me once....
drove all the way from Oban to Elgin like that.
Badger.

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:33:50 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:26:52 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>There is a popular misconception that viscous fans rob power, over-cool or
>>under-cool engines and generally cause slower warming up, all bull****! A
>>properly operating viscous unit robs virtually zero power from the engine as
>>the fan is in freewheel mode the vast majority of the time anyway, being
>>rotated more due to airflow as mph increases than by engine rpm.
>
>ah, but how many are "properly operating"? I've only ever had 2 that I was
>convinced about.

Yeah. I'm not convinced about the viscous fans on either of my
landies. Atleast you know where you are with an electric one!

On or around Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:53:53 +0100, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:33:50 +0100, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On or around Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:26:52 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
>><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>There is a popular misconception that viscous fans rob power, over-cool or
>>>under-cool engines and generally cause slower warming up, all bull****! A
>>>properly operating viscous unit robs virtually zero power from the engine as
>>>the fan is in freewheel mode the vast majority of the time anyway, being
>>>rotated more due to airflow as mph increases than by engine rpm.
>>
>>ah, but how many are "properly operating"? I've only ever had 2 that I was
>>convinced about.
>
>Yeah. I'm not convinced about the viscous fans on either of my
>landies. Atleast you know where you are with an electric one!

yeah, the bastard can seize in midflight and stop blowing on a hot day, like
one of mine did.

viscous ones fail one of 2 ways, mostly it seems they go too stiff and spin
when they don't need to.

I really prefer solid engine-driven fans. OK, not as efficient, but they do
keep working unless the fan belt fails, and that's usually apparent from
other info.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)