Rhodesian Series 2a engine number mystery

Hi all,
I've had my petrol 2 1/4 1970 2a for over 20 years, but have only just got round to actually looking at the engine number. As a new member, I can't upload a photo. But it seems to be 348 76590. The 348 seems to have a prefix M M 2 (M M on one line, 2 348 below that, then 76590 stamped at 90deg to the other two lines.

I don't have a full history - the vehicle could have been built in South Africa or in Umtali (now Mutare) Rhodesia, or have come from the UK, though as Rhodesia was under sanctions in 1970 that is less likely; she served with the Rhodesian military for a while, and then went to a farm where she lived till I bought her in 2000.

The engine might have been replaced; and there is no data plate on the bulkhead and I don't know where to find the chassis number anywhere else.

The owners document has the engine number as 76590R, and a chassis number 26302366D, though i have no idea where they got that from!

Any assistance much appreciated. Once I'm established I'll try to upload some photos. All the best to you all, and thanks for having me here.

Rob, Harare

First Welcome.

I believe most chassis numbers were stamped on the front "dumb iron" on the outside of the right hand 1(sitting in the car). If its original, if its been replaced its gone
Engine number without pics sounds way out there of any I have come across in searches.
To post pics try copy paste or drag and drop. not sure if it still works the forum is having a few upgrades at the moment and we are all waiting for the new super fast version.

I could be wrong but so many were shipped overseas as kit form and if they had numbers I dont know.

@Turboman is pretty good with this age of LR
@v8250 also.

Best of luck with it. Would be nice to see some pics and hear a bit more about you in here Introduce Yourself | LandyZone - Land Rover Forum

J

Thanks very much for the speedy response, and the advice! Here's the best pic I can get of the engine number - see what you can make of this.

robzimbo said:

Hi all,
I've had my petrol 2 1/4 1970 2a for over 20 years, but have only just got round to actually looking at the engine number. As a new member, I can't upload a photo. But it seems to be 348 76590. The 348 seems to have a prefix M M 2 (M M on one line, 2 348 below that, then 76590 stamped at 90deg to the other two lines.

I don't have a full history - the vehicle could have been built in South Africa or in Umtali (now Mutare) Rhodesia, or have come from the UK, though as Rhodesia was under sanctions in 1970 that is less likely; she served with the Rhodesian military for a while, and then went to a farm where she lived till I bought her in 2000.

The engine might have been replaced; and there is no data plate on the bulkhead and I don't know where to find the chassis number anywhere else.

The owners document has the engine number as 76590R, and a chassis number 26302366D, though i have no idea where they got that from!

Any assistance much appreciated. Once I'm established I'll try to upload some photos. All the best to you all, and thanks for having me here.

Rob, Harare

Click to expand...

You can post pics, you can't currently upload them using the upload button, because it isn't working. Nothing to do with being a new member, it doesn't work for me either.

Try and post some clear pictures of the whole engine. I can probably tell you what it is without reference to numbers.

For the engine number, google Glencoyne, there is a guide to Land Rover engine numbers on the site, and more useful info as well. He has been working on them even longer than me.

A few things to bear in mind. One is that I have no idea what numbers were stamped on foreign assembled vehicles.
The other is that the original numbers were just hand stamped on the metal, so anyone can, and sometimes did, stamp their own. This is common practice among engine reconditioners.

robzimbo said:

Thanks very much for the speedy response, and the advice! Here's the best pic I can get of the engine number - see what you can make of this.

Click to expand...

Have a look on the Glencoyne site, see if it comes up. And try wiping the metal flat with some light oil, might make the numbers show up more.

robzimbo said:

Hi all,
I've had my petrol 2 1/4 1970 2a for over 20 years, but have only just got round to actually looking at the engine number. As a new member, I can't upload a photo. But it seems to be 348 76590. The 348 seems to have a prefix M M 2 (M M on one line, 2 348 below that, then 76590 stamped at 90deg to the other two lines.

I don't have a full history - the vehicle could have been built in South Africa or in Umtali (now Mutare) Rhodesia, or have come from the UK, though as Rhodesia was under sanctions in 1970 that is less likely; she served with the Rhodesian military for a while, and then went to a farm where she lived till I bought her in 2000.

The engine might have been replaced; and there is no data plate on the bulkhead and I don't know where to find the chassis number anywhere else.

The owners document has the engine number as 76590R, and a chassis number 26302366D, though i have no idea where they got that from!

Any assistance much appreciated. Once I'm established I'll try to upload some photos. All the best to you all, and thanks for having me here.

Rob, Harare

Click to expand...

Just remembered a couple more things that may be of interest.

One is that there was another thread on this subject a while ago, maybe last year, or the year before.
It was very similar, I think he was in Southern Africa, and he posted up about an engine he had. Both on LZ, and another forum.
He had been on this for years, and everyone had a go at the guessing game, but after a while he posted up that he knew what it was all along.
Sadly, I can't remember what it was, but there are rumours that forum Search will be fixed at the end of the week, so it might be worth giving that a go then.

Which leads to my second point. Rover engines weren't just fitted in Land Rovers, they also went into Rover cars, Taxis, Leyland vans, and maybe other stuff.
And my vague memory is that the engine that was posted was actually out of a non Land Rover vehicle.

Again, good clear pics of the engine, and the whole vehicle, will be very helpful in identification.

Turboman said:

Have a look on the Glencoyne site, see if it comes up. And try wiping the metal flat with some light oil, might make the numbers show up more.

Click to expand...

Glencoyne suggests that 346 xxxxxx is a petrol 2 1/4 Series 2a, which fits - but I only have five numbers after that. 234 xxxxxx isn't listed - the 2 numbers start at 236, which is the air-portable 88.

Interesting that numbers were sometimes basically 'made up' - but of course that makes sense, especially here where bush mechanics is the most common mechanics!

It's too dark now for more photos, but I'll have a dig around for chassis numbers and a good engine photo tomorrow. Meantime here's a shot of the old girl - she got a new coat of paint for her 50th a couple of years ago, and a bikini top from Exmoor canvas.

Thanks for advice and interest, chaps.

R
Harare

Have a look at
http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/engno.htm
And
https://glencoyne.co.uk/chassis.htm

I've got some ancient books with numbers in, but can't remember where they are

1962-79 - eight digit chassis numbers, with the first three 241-354 for series 2. These indicate design modifications.

The books I've got are for series 1

kermit_rr said:

1962-79 - eight digit chassis numbers, with the first three 241-354 for series 2. These indicate design modifications.

The books I've got are for series 1

Click to expand...

Thanks Kermit - so mine is 346 76590 - good to know. I see that Glencoyne lists the 346 prefix engines as having six digits after, but your info that it should be an 8 digit number in total resolves that.

Here's couple more pix - my happy place - Landy, coffee pot, bedroll, Kelly kettle, Africa. All sorted. Have a good day, all.

robzimbo said:

Thanks Kermit - so mine is 346 76590 - good to know. I see that Glencoyne lists the 346 prefix engines as having six digits after, but your info that it should be an 8 digit number in total resolves that.

Here's couple more pix - my happy place - Landy, coffee pot, bedroll, Kelly kettle, Africa. All sorted. Have a good day, all. View attachment 286440

View attachment 286439

Click to expand...

Nice clean working Series.

Good to see that you are using it in the way it is meant to be used.
Most Series in the UK, including ours, are now mostly used for rallies and classic vehicle events, due to the overcrowded roads and loss of most driveable byways.

robzimbo said:

Thanks Kermit - so mine is 346 76590 - good to know. I see that Glencoyne lists the 346 prefix engines as having six digits after, but your info that it should be an 8 digit number in total resolves that.

Here's couple more pix - my happy place - Landy, coffee pot, bedroll, Kelly kettle, Africa. All sorted. Have a good day, all. View attachment 286440

View attachment 286439

Click to expand...

Last picture is all wrong. The grill should have been removed and have some wors cooking on it.

Turboman said:

Nice clean working Series.

Good to see that you are using it in the way it is meant to be used.
Most Series in the UK, including ours, are now mostly used for rallies and classic vehicle events, due to the overcrowded roads and loss of most driveable byways.

Click to expand...

I used to do RTV trials in mine, but the club died

kermit_rr said:

I used to do RTV trials in mine, but the club died

Click to expand...

I used to do RTV trials in mine too, but that was back in the late 80s.

Also used to drive long lanes like the Ridgeway, but most of that is Restricted Byways now.

"Laning" trips in the South now tend to be miles and miles on the roads, and taking in little stretches of a mile or two of the remaining BOATs and ORPAs.

@Turboman - here's a couple of pictures of the engine. Let me know what you think.

R

robzimbo said:

@Turboman - here's a couple of pictures of the engine. Let me know what you think.

R
View attachment 286450

View attachment 286451

Click to expand...

Looks like a 2286 cc, 4 cylinder, 3 main bearing Rover engine, with a Zenith carb.
I could be wrong about the carb, but if it is, that is exactly what I would expect to find in a UK assembled Series 2a of that age.
The only thing I can see that is unexpected is the air cleaner, I would expect an oil bath air cleaner, but that looks like a canister with a paper element?
It could be that the air cleaner has been added by a previous owner, or maybe that is what they had on models sold in Zim.

Turboman said:

Looks like a 2286 cc, 4 cylinder, 3 main bearing Rover engine, with a Zenith carb.

I could be wrong about the carb, but if it is, that is exactly what I would expect to find in a UK assembled Series 2a of that age.
The only thing I can see that is unexpected is the air cleaner, I would expect an oil bath air cleaner, but that looks like a canister with a paper element?
It could be that the air cleaner has been added by a previous owner, or maybe that is what they had on models sold in Zim.

Click to expand...

It is indeed a Zenith carb, except oddly it says 'Solex' on it.... the vagaries of Land Rover ownership! The air filter is a paper filter, which is a lot easier and less messy to keep clean in African dust. There are various odd holes drilled in the firewall and dash, for weapons mounts, radios and other military kit, and a rather good solid metal tool box just in front of the grill which doubles as a bash plate.

From 1960 there was a BMC factory in Umtali that assembled several vehicles from kits from the UK - Mini mokes, Morris /Austin 1100, and Landys among them. When sanctions hit in 1965 the kits were grey-imported from South Africa. There are a tiny handful of Series 2a here with 'Land Rover Rhodesia' data plates on the firewall, but they are rarer than hen's teeth. I'd love to have one!

My ex- (and still, thank goodness, great mate) Nicky did the Taylor's Safari Rally in my Series 2a (I was in Ukraine so couldn't make it) last year. 500kms of bush track from Bulawayo, through Hwange National Park, to Vic Falls. She had a blast, by all accounts!

https://www.facebook.com/taylorsafricasafaris/likes

robzimbo said:

It is indeed a Zenith carb, except oddly it says 'Solex' on it.... the vagaries of Land Rover ownership! The air filter is a paper filter, which is a lot easier and less messy to keep clean in African dust. There are various odd holes drilled in the firewall and dash, for weapons mounts, radios and other military kit, and a rather good solid metal tool box just in front of the grill which doubles as a bash plate.

From 1960 there was a BMC factory in Umtali that assembled several vehicles from kits from the UK - Mini mokes, Morris /Austin 1100, and Landys among them. When sanctions hit in 1965 the kits were grey-imported from South Africa. There are a tiny handful of Series 2a here with 'Land Rover Rhodesia' data plates on the firewall, but they are rarer than hen's teeth. I'd love to have one!

My ex- (and still, thank goodness, great mate) Nicky did the Taylor's Safari Rally in my Series 2a (I was in Ukraine so couldn't make it) last year. 500kms of bush track from Bulawayo, through Hwange National Park, to Vic Falls. She had a blast, by all accounts!

https://www.facebook.com/taylorsafricasafaris/likes

Click to expand...

It is probably a Solex carb then, they were fitted to earlier 2a, but it doesn't look like the Solex carb on ours.

I knew that the kit Series, which were known as CKD Kits (Completely Knocked Down) were shipped to, and assembled in, South Africa, as well as other places, but I didn't know that Zim was one of those places. Most interesting, thanks for that info.

I always thought oil bath air cleaner were better in dusty conditions, but maybe that is not the case.

I don't do facebook, but will get my wife to have a look at it when she has time.

Zenith made solex carburetors, that's different from a solex carburettor