request for 101 lpg conversion details

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T

Tom Woods

Guest
as i rewire the 101 i wanted to add wires for the LPG kit that im
going to fit as soon as it runs again.

can anybody tell me where they mounted the vaporiser and cutoff/filter
solenoids on their 101's (and post some pictures if necessary).

from the looks of it the side panel under the coil looks like a good
spot for the vaporiser. will it fit without moving the coil? or have
people done that?

are there any cunning/recommended places for the switch/control bits
too?

Ta
 
Tom Woods wrote:
on their 101's (and post some pictures if necessary).
>
> from the looks of it the side panel under the coil looks like a good
> spot for the vaporiser. will it fit without moving the coil? or have
> people done that?

On my GS, the vapouriser is behind the driver, near some of the coolant
pipes. My tank is on the passenger side in the load space behind the
passenger and before the wheel arch. The cutoff/changeover 1 is under
the floor, just gearbox-wards of the handbrake drum. The ancillary tank
is where the petrol tank used to be. Its solenoid is in the tank, and
the changeover 2 valve is near the other one.

> are there any cunning/recommended places for the switch/control bits
> too?

You need a run to the dizzy to pick up sparks present signals, the rest
are off the dash.

Steve
 
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:38:11 +0100, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Woods wrote:
> on their 101's (and post some pictures if necessary).
>>
>> from the looks of it the side panel under the coil looks like a good
>> spot for the vaporiser. will it fit without moving the coil? or have
>> people done that?
>
>On my GS, the vapouriser is behind the driver, near some of the coolant
>pipes.

in the big empty space behind the seat where the starter motor relay
is? i thought that i should find something to go there! :)

>My tank is on the passenger side in the load space behind the
>passenger and before the wheel arch.

got the tank sorted! tis going where my ambi compressor tank was.

> The cutoff/changeover 1 is under
>the floor, just gearbox-wards of the handbrake drum. The ancillary tank
>is where the petrol tank used to be. Its solenoid is in the tank, and
>the changeover 2 valve is near the other one.

hmm. never dealt with a duel tank one. my car only has a single. i
guess the 101 is only going single tank too.

>> are there any cunning/recommended places for the switch/control bits
>> too?
>
>You need a run to the dizzy to pick up sparks present signals, the rest
>are off the dash.

i think the one in my car uses the coil -ve/rev counter feed. the
switch i put in the car had 6 wires to it i think - it has the feed
for all the solenoids and the tank gauge on it too - so i need to
guestimate my location so that i can get the wire length kinda right..

>Steve

 
Tom Woods wrote:

> in the big empty space behind the seat where the starter motor relay
> is? i thought that i should find something to go there! :)

Just on the outside of it.

I can do you a picture I think.

Steve
 
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:47:12 +0100, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Woods wrote:
>
>> in the big empty space behind the seat where the starter motor relay
>> is? i thought that i should find something to go there! :)
>
>Just on the outside of it.
>
>I can do you a picture I think.
>
If you could do me a quick snap it would be useful ta. sounds like a
sensible position over there as it is convenient for the coolant
pipes!
 
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:47:12 +0100, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>I can do you a picture I think.
>
>Steve

any chance of a pic steve? tommorrow nights job is putting more engine
bay wiring into flexy conduit stuff, and while i can easily add wires
later, ive already worn the skin off both my thumbs adding wires to
other bits of flexy stuff, so would prefer to cut down on putting
wires in it before my fingers start bleeding! ;)

you wouldnt belive how many wires ive run into the truck so far! there
are 2 25mm O/D bundles just for my top dash!
 
Tom Woods wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:47:12 +0100, Steve Taylor
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I can do you a picture I think.
>>
>> Steve
>
> any chance of a pic steve?

Sure.

Steve
 
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:47:12 +0100, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Woods wrote:
>
>> in the big empty space behind the seat where the starter motor relay
>> is? i thought that i should find something to go there! :)
>
>Just on the outside of it.

Ive now run a nice long solenoid feed down to that area.

next question:

How does the fuel cut off work on the 101?

On my car there is a wire from the LPG switch that goes to an inline
fuel tap, which is presumably energised while on gas and stops fuel
getting to my carb.

On the 101 i presume the gas kit will just want to turn off the petrol
pump by cutting its power? is it the usual approch to use a relay to
achieve this?
I'm already wiring in a relay to power my fuel pump that i was going
to make become live with ignition on.

Can any vehicle wiring gurus tell me if it is possible for me to use a
single 4 pin relay and have it both going on with +12v from the
ignition switch and off with +12v from the LPG controller?

Could i wire the ignition on feed to one triggering pin and the LPG
cut-off feed to the other triggering pin? I'm assuming this would act
as a gnd when the gas kit was switched off? or will it not?
 
And can any other 101 owners tell me where this reverse light switch
position which apprently exists on the top of my gearbox is? Ive
looked all round the bit where the lever goes into the box but cannot
see any threaded holes!
 
Tom Woods wrote:

> On the 101 i presume the gas kit will just want to turn off the petrol
> pump by cutting its power? is it the usual approch to use a relay to
> achieve this?
Always safest

> Can any vehicle wiring gurus tell me if it is possible for me to use a
> single 4 pin relay and have it both going on with +12v from the
> ignition switch and off with +12v from the LPG controller?

No, you wire the 12v feed to the pump through the (normally closed)*
switch contacts. You wire the LPG cutoff to the coil of the relay.

*Normally closed - as if the coil is switched off, the contacts are CLOSED
c.v. Normally open, as if the coil is switched off, the contacts are open.

Steve

 
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:35:55 +0100, steve
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Can any vehicle wiring gurus tell me if it is possible for me to use a
>> single 4 pin relay and have it both going on with +12v from the
>> ignition switch and off with +12v from the LPG controller?
>
>No, you wire the 12v feed to the pump through the (normally closed)*
>switch contacts. You wire the LPG cutoff to the coil of the relay.
>
>*Normally closed - as if the coil is switched off, the contacts are CLOSED
> c.v. Normally open, as if the coil is switched off, the contacts are open.

So use 2 relays then?

 
Tom Woods wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:35:55 +0100, steve
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Can any vehicle wiring gurus tell me if it is possible for me to use a
>>> single 4 pin relay and have it both going on with +12v from the
>>> ignition switch and off with +12v from the LPG controller?
>> No, you wire the 12v feed to the pump through the (normally closed)*
>> switch contacts. You wire the LPG cutoff to the coil of the relay.
>>
>> *Normally closed - as if the coil is switched off, the contacts are CLOSED
>> c.v. Normally open, as if the coil is switched off, the contacts are open.
>
> So use 2 relays then?
>

No, just the one - you only want to isolate the pump when the LPG is on
don't you ? The pump HAS to run when you're on petrol.

Steve
 
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:10:47 +0100, steve
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Woods wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:35:55 +0100, steve
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Can any vehicle wiring gurus tell me if it is possible for me to use a
>>>> single 4 pin relay and have it both going on with +12v from the
>>>> ignition switch and off with +12v from the LPG controller?
>>> No, you wire the 12v feed to the pump through the (normally closed)*
>>> switch contacts. You wire the LPG cutoff to the coil of the relay.
>>>
>>> *Normally closed - as if the coil is switched off, the contacts are CLOSED
>>> c.v. Normally open, as if the coil is switched off, the contacts are open.
>>
>> So use 2 relays then?
>>
>
>No, just the one - you only want to isolate the pump when the LPG is on
>don't you ? The pump HAS to run when you're on petrol.

I was thinking that the pump would be effectively turned on by an
ignition live trigger from my ignition switch (and possibly an
imobiliser switch) - ignoring the LPG; the act of turning the pump on
with the ignition was going to use a relay.

I was wondering if i could turn the pump off, (or prevent it turning
on from the ignition live trigger) using the 12v LPG active feed along
with the SAME relay.

I could do it with 2 relays, one that turns on with the igntion and
another to cut the feed as you describe but it would mean less relays
if i did it with a single one.

would the following work? :

assuming the relay has 4 pins which are coil 1 and coil 2 (C1, C2) and
then power 1 and Power 2 (P1,P2) which are the 2 contacts on it. (the
pin numbers pdf at AES is down :( )

C1 - ignition live +12v from ignition switch via imobiliser
C2 - +12v from LPG switch (to fuel cut/active)
P1 - +12v
P2 - Fuel pump

When the ignition was turned on and the LPG was off the pump should
run (wire to LPG presumably 0v/Gnd).
With the ignition on and the LPG on the pump wont run.

am i right here?

otherwise i need to use 2 relays.

 
On or around Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:33:56 +0100, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>How does the fuel cut off work on the 101?
>
>On the 101 i presume the gas kit will just want to turn off the petrol
>pump by cutting its power? is it the usual approch to use a relay to
>achieve this?

>I'm already wiring in a relay to power my fuel pump that i was going
>to make become live with ignition on.

why? hasn't it already got a pump feed?

>Can any vehicle wiring gurus tell me if it is possible for me to use a
>single 4 pin relay and have it both going on with +12v from the
>ignition switch and off with +12v from the LPG controller?

no.

You need a changeover relay in the pump feed, as steve said, wire the pump
feed to common (30) and NC (87A), then the gas "live" signal to the trigger
(85) and earth the other end (86). You can, optionally, use the NO (87) pin
to energise the gas system solenoids, but most gas system controllers are
designed to be able to energise the solenoids directly.

If you want to feed the petrol pump through a relay then you need an
additional one for that - although the vehicle may already have that.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink;
Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by;
Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710)
 
Tom Woods wrote:

> I was thinking that the pump would be effectively turned on by an
> ignition live trigger from my ignition switch (and possibly an
> imobiliser switch) - ignoring the LPG; the act of turning the pump on
> with the ignition was going to use a relay.
>

Don't forget the oil pressure switch, which is bypassed by the starter
motor during cranking.


> C1 - ignition live +12v from ignition switch via imobiliser
> C2 - +12v from LPG switch (to fuel cut/active)

No gnd connection to the relay ? How will it turn on ??? If you do the
LPG switch with a double pole changeover, you might make it, without
invoking another couple of quid of relay.

Steve
 
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:24:22 +0100, steve
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Woods wrote:
>
>> I was thinking that the pump would be effectively turned on by an
>> ignition live trigger from my ignition switch (and possibly an
>> imobiliser switch) - ignoring the LPG; the act of turning the pump on
>> with the ignition was going to use a relay.
>>
>
>Don't forget the oil pressure switch, which is bypassed by the starter
>motor during cranking.
Not wiring the oil pressure switch in for starting/fueling purposes. I
dont like it! (and it is broken)

>> C1 - ignition live +12v from ignition switch via imobiliser
>> C2 - +12v from LPG switch (to fuel cut/active)
>
>No gnd connection to the relay ? How will it turn on ??? If you do the
>LPG switch with a double pole changeover, you might make it, without
>invoking another couple of quid of relay.

wont the LPG fuel cut off feed be a gnd when it isnt 12v?

Its not the few quid of relay i object to - just after a slight
simplification and one less relay to fit in.

 
Tom Woods wrote:

> Not wiring the oil pressure switch in for starting/fueling purposes. I
> dont like it! (and it is broken)

It is a safety feature !

> wont the LPG fuel cut off feed be a gnd when it isnt 12v?

No, it'll be open-circuit.

Steve
 
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:21:45 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:33:56 +0100, Tom Woods
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>How does the fuel cut off work on the 101?
>>
>>On the 101 i presume the gas kit will just want to turn off the petrol
>>pump by cutting its power? is it the usual approch to use a relay to
>>achieve this?
>
>>I'm already wiring in a relay to power my fuel pump that i was going
>>to make become live with ignition on.
>
>why? hasn't it already got a pump feed?

It aint got anything that i havent put back in myself over the last
few weeks!
The fuel pump did run through a very long bit of wire that i rammed
into the inspection socket before i started it. The coil +ve feed was
also rammed into the same inspection socket.. (this is partly why im
rewiring it!)

>You need a changeover relay in the pump feed, as steve said, wire the pump
>feed to common (30) and NC (87A), then the gas "live" signal to the trigger
>(85) and earth the other end (86). You can, optionally, use the NO (87) pin
>to energise the gas system solenoids, but most gas system controllers are
>designed to be able to energise the solenoids directly.
>
>If you want to feed the petrol pump through a relay then you need an
>additional one for that - although the vehicle may already have that.

I was under the impression that it was sensible to wire fuel pumps in
through relays as they used quite a bit of current/power and running
constantly meant that a bit of protection via a relay was prudent.
 
Tom Woods wrote:
> I was under the impression that it was sensible to wire fuel pumps in
> through relays as they used quite a bit of current/power and running
> constantly meant that a bit of protection via a relay was prudent.

Its only a few Watts, but I'd keep a relay, or a transistor.

Steve
 
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:44:28 +0100, steve
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Woods wrote:
>
>> Not wiring the oil pressure switch in for starting/fueling purposes. I
>> dont like it! (and it is broken)
>
>It is a safety feature !

Ive got an oil pressure gauge, so i can tell for myself if my oil
pressure is bad.
Did all 3.5 rover v8's have the oil pressure cut off switch or just
the military versions?

>> wont the LPG fuel cut off feed be a gnd when it isnt 12v?
>
>No, it'll be open-circuit.
>
>Steve

 
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