Renaming required, I think

Saint.V8 said:

The whole point of a Range Rover is to have something special...to own something to aspire to.....

Yes they are expensive - but they are expensive for a reason....to ensure those that want one really really want one and are willing to sacrafice for one, to prove their worthyness to owning one....

They are not for everyone, so saying that 'Not everybody can afford a Range Rover....' is the whole point.....

If everyone could afford one, then there would be nothing special about them....

The Evoque has dragged the Range Rover name into the mire by making it more accessable to the 'masses' - but that is not what Range Rover is about.....

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A part of me agree with you, another don't. We can't say that the Evoque is dragging the brand down, is the Evoque a bad car? Is there anything wrong in allowing people that can't afford a RR to not at least have a taste of it via a more affordable and very stylish car?

Saint.V8 said:

If everyone could afford one, then there would be nothing special about them....

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This is (above) where I most disagree, you are mixing two different things. There will ALWAYS be something special about them : Their Ride, their comfort, their off road capabilities and so on... Something that other manufacturer can't give. Granted that the "exclusivity" of it will suffer if everybody could afford them, but is this a bad thing? Look at other brands, like BMW, BENZ or AUDI they offer more accessible cars but does their brand suffer from it? I don't know about the UK but here in Japan you see these Bands as much as Japanese car, same for 911s.

These bands offer a wide range of car from the affordable A1 to the SLR (seeing one per week by the way) and whether you buy a A1 or a A8 the overall experience is the same you have the feeling that you are buying a luxury car and I can tell you that people driving in those A-Class, A1, or 1 Series are as snobbish as the ones that drive High-end models.

It is true that when I was living in Europe I was thinking like you on this, but since I am in Japan and seeing Benz, Audi, BMW, Porches, Ferrari, Lambo, Maserati, Veyron as much as you may see in Europe Peugeot, Renault, Seat and Co... I since change my mind, why would you not want anyone to enjoy such experience from every level?

Datatek said:

Oh and the Evoque is the ugliest thing on 4 wheels I've seen in a very long time, worse even than the BL land Crab.

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Agree to disagree!!! The Evoque can't be worse than that :

Fiat Multipla picture # 01 of 25, Front Angle, MY 2002, 1600x1200

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/41746513/Suzuki-X-90-side.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/SsangYong_Korando_front_20080711.jpg

And the worst of all...

http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/2014-jeep-cherokee-1.jpg

Saint.V8 said:

I am certainly not a brand worshipper - I have explained numerous times where my love of Land Rovers has come from - as a young lad standing in a museum staring in awe at a Desert Rat Land Rover thinking it was the best thing ever....I then read books and cut out pictures from magazines all about Land Rovers and Range Rovers....this is before I had any concept of money, brands, social status or 'keeping up with the Joneses'....

I couldn't give a flying sh!t about any of that.....everythime I get into my Range Rover - I am that young kid again staring in awe of this awesome looking vehicle in front of me....I enjoy my Range Rover, I love my Range Rover....

Just because you don't, please don't tarnish us all with the Brand Lovers rhetoric.....

I am just a young man who still wants to be that young boy standing in a museum....

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Would you be happier about Evoques if they were pink?

G~

the new rr are a abomination they are horrid look more like minis on steroids i really dont like em , i understand things must progress but the iconic thing about the rr for me is the big square shape with the aerodynamics of a house brick that was what i loves about as a young lad seeing them thinking wow i want one i still cannot be-leave i have one now

mutsnutz said:

the new rr are a abomination they are horrid look more like minis on steroids i really dont like em , i understand things must progress but the iconic thing about the rr for me is the big square shape with the aerodynamics of a house brick that was what i loves about as a young lad seeing them thinking wow i want one i still cannot be-leave i have one now

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You know what, my dream would be that someone offer rebuilt Classic like eagle offers E-types. I would Kill for a 2 door Classic rebuilt like this, with maybe a new moderm engine, brakes and steering... Or like the Icon Bronco BR | Models | ICON

Back in my 30's, I had a company car budget that ran to a new Range Rover, I'd always liked the look of them since I went to the unveiling when it was introduced. The accompanied test drive did not go well, I'm not very hard on cars but the gear lever came out in my hand. We had to be recovered! That was when I realised they might be dodgy, the full awareness of how bad they were came slowly over the years with the experiences of others. Needless to say I did not buy a new Range Rover. What I did buy was supposedly German quality engineering, a Porsche. It was without doubt the worst vehicle I have ever owned in terms of finish and reliability. Since then I've stuck to vehicles with a reputation for reliability. I've never bought new with my own money, preferring secondhand and cheap. I have a Range Rover because as I've said before they are dirt cheap. Should have kept my Hyundai, shame it was so thirsty.

I skipped to the end. But I have been massively put off the latest generation of Range Rovers (all of them) for one reason.

The designer used to work at Ford and clearly he used a Xerox to designed the Range Rovers.

odysseus said:

I'm sure the Evoque is a "good" car. Is it a Range Rover? I'm not so sure, but then I don't think a Cayenne is a real Porsche either.

The fact remains however the brand can lose a bit of credibility while sales go through the roof, thus paying for the more credible 'core' products. Just the way of the world.

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The new Range Rover Sport will have an entry level version that doesn't have a transfer case. Instead they are opting for a system similar to the Freelander to save costs and make it more accessible. Plus it is hoped, that not having full time AWD will help improve it's sporty image.

gencybay said:

Would you be happier about Evoques if they were pink?

G~

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Hmmmm....doesn't quite have the same 'edge' the Series had....put guns, mortars and a bunch of sand ladders on it, and maybe just maybe I would give it a second glance!

Saint.V8 said:

Hmmmm....doesn't quite have the same 'edge' the Series had....put guns, mortars and a bunch of sand ladders on it, and maybe just maybe I would give it a second glance!

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englishbullterrier said:

Nah, got rid, too expensive to run and fix. Now got a vehicle that has more storage than a RR or LR, gets 64 mpg motorway and 46 mpg town.

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Aww never mind. One day, when you don't have to worry about the costs, you'll be able to come back to the green oval. Even if it is just another gaylander.
In the meantime :hug:

Bix said:

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that probably is a very good car with alot of money thrown at it, but then again a ford focus could perform exellent off road with a few tens of thousonds of £s thrown at it! still dont mean the factory standerd was any good

gfromleeds said:

that probably is a very good car with alot of money thrown at it, but then again a ford focus could perform exellent off road with a few tens of thousonds of £s thrown at it! still dont mean the factory standerd was any good

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He said he wanted a more manly Ejit. The Nemesis only bares a vague resemblance to the Range Rover Sport it is based on. For about £200,000 you too could have a manly Ejit. Or for around £130,000 get an S2000 spec Ford Fiesta.

Saint.V8 said:

The whole point of a Range Rover is to have something special...to own something to aspire to.....

Yes they are expensive - but they are expensive for a reason....to ensure those that want one really really want one and are willing to sacrafice for one, to prove their worthyness to owning one....

They are not for everyone, so saying that 'Not everybody can afford a Range Rover....' is the whole point.....


If everyone could afford one, then there would be nothing special about them....

The Evoque has dragged the Range Rover name into the mire by making it more accessable to the 'masses' - but that is not what Range Rover is about.....

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Well said that man.

The only thing anyone will think about ejoke owners is ' They are wannabes who want the prestige of the badge on the school run but can't actually afford it. Not only can they not afford a Range Range, they can't even afford a Sport!' They'd be better off buying the top of the range something else, than the bottom of the range Range Rover.

I'm fairly sure the Evoque is aimed at wannabee Beckhams and whoofters.....

A bit like the Freelander was. The is LRs biggest selling motor because peasants who can't afford a proper car buy them. Imagine how embarrassing it must be to be unable to run one of them. You can run a Freelander on pocket change and tictacs.

Bix said:

A bit like the Freelander was. The is LRs biggest selling motor because peasants who can't afford a proper car buy them. Imagine how embarrassing it must be to be unable to run one of them. You can run a Freelander on pocket change and tictacs.

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You don't even need the tictacs now, since fuel has gone down a couple of pennies

gold rover said:

You don't even need the tictacs now, since fuel has gone down a couple of pennies

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A couple? It is 136.9p a litre of derv down here. It is so cheap now I leave my engine running through the day so I can leave the A/C on. Sometimes I have to fill up again at lunch, but it means I have a nice chilly car to return to.

SpacePig said:

you guys are rather "Rude" with the Evoque ................

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It's not rudeness it's honesty. However, it is just like calling a fat person fat. The fact is that they are fat but because they can't be honest with themselves, they don't like the honesty of others and say it's rude to call them fat.
If someone can't afford a proper Range Rover and buy or want an ejoke instead, they should be honest about it. The ejoke is the brand equivalent of those 'designer' handbags found in the Saturday market. It might carry the name but everyone knows exactly what it is

The Ejit is like the Porsche Boxster. It is for people who cannot afford the real thing. Ask any Boxster only why they got the Boxster and they'll tell you it is because they cannot afford a 911.

gold rover said:

It's not rudeness it's honesty. However, it is just like calling a fat person fat. The fact is that they are fat but because they can't be honest with themselves, they don't like the honesty of others and say it's rude to call them fat.
If someone can't afford a proper Range Rover and buy or want an ejoke instead, they should be honest about it. The ejoke is the brand equivalent of those 'designer' handbags found in the Saturday market. It might carry the name but everyone knows exactly what it is

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Do you feel then the same with an Aston Martin V8 Vantage? A Porsche Cayman (Fantastic fun car to drive BTW), Jaguar F-Type? Coz all the above are not : Proper Aston Martin, Proper Porsche and proper Jaguar if we follow these chain of thoughts.

Shall we say that the Nissan GT-R is not a great car since it cost twice as less than a 911 Turbo or a 358 Italia and less "luxurious" than them?? Believe me on this one but after many miles with all of them the 911 Turbo and 358 Italia are just plane boring compare to the GT-R when pushed to the limit. But then again the GT-R is a Nissan and it is an affordable car compare to the very sexy but dull 358 Italia*

Nobody will believe for a minutes that by buying an Evoque or a Freelander you will have the same experience than on a RR. But at least you know that you will have a car that has been designed by people who made this amazing RR you may not be able to afford and that some of this experience and knowledge is on the car you bought.

As a person who's road testing car for magazines and for the fun, I had a unique chance to talk to the people who make these cars and OF COURSE there is in the car like Evoque or V8 Vantage an desire for manufacturer to touch a larger audience but the engineers behind these cars are none the less adding all their knowledge and passion into these cars and made sure it will leave up to people's expectations.

I am not against you guys and I understand your passion for the RR, hell I own one! Will not replace it for anything else, well maybe a Classic, MKII, MKIII or MKIV ;-), but give the Evoque a chance...

*I am may sound crazy or stupid and of course the 358 Italia is not dull, the 358 is a GREAT Car, but if you have to compare it to a GT-R, the GT-R will always be faster and more "impressive" when pushed to the limit than the 358.