Re: why i wish I still had a Land Rover

On or around Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:28:02 +0000, MVP
<mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> enlightened us thusly:

>tried to take the wife into work this morning...
>lesson 1, cornwall county council don't have a clue about how to deal
>with snow and ice.
>lesson 2, jaguars are hard work in snow and ice.
>it took every ounce of driving skill to get as far as I did, before
>deciding that I didn't fancy doing the same trip again in a few hours
>to pick her up again. have to admit, it'd be well within my abilities
>to make that trip in a land rover.
>cornwall is currently closed for business.

so's this area, or rather the schools are.

If we're really going to have a hard winter with lots of snow and ice, we
need a bit of a rethink about how we deal with it. I'm buggered if I'm
going to lose more then a few days income 'cos of an inch of snow on the
road. I reckon I could have done my school route this morning...

it's just not practical for more than a couple of days to say "we can't get
there 'cos of the snow".

Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.

Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:28:02 +0000, MVP
> <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> enlightened us thusly:

>>cornwall is currently closed for business.

> so's this area, or rather the schools are.

> Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.

It's all part of being British, to follow these simple rules :-
- act completely surprised when we get any snow even though the weather
man has been saying it for the last few days,
- lose all ability to drive safely (not that many had that ability
anyway considering some of the stupid driving I've seen in the rain)
- panic and abandon your car when you get the slightest wheel spin so
others with better grip can't get past even if they were able to
- still go out in just a T-shirt to pop into the shops then get
hypothermia when you're stranded
- have a reactive gritter system rather than the usual proactive system
most country's seem to have no problem with,

the list goes on ...

In message <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> writes
>On or around Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:28:02 +0000, MVP
><mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>tried to take the wife into work this morning...
>>lesson 1, cornwall county council don't have a clue about how to deal
>>with snow and ice.
>>lesson 2, jaguars are hard work in snow and ice.
>>it took every ounce of driving skill to get as far as I did, before
>>deciding that I didn't fancy doing the same trip again in a few hours
>>to pick her up again. have to admit, it'd be well within my abilities
>>to make that trip in a land rover.
>>cornwall is currently closed for business.
>
>so's this area, or rather the schools are.
>
>If we're really going to have a hard winter with lots of snow and ice, we
>need a bit of a rethink about how we deal with it. I'm buggered if I'm
>going to lose more then a few days income 'cos of an inch of snow on the
>road. I reckon I could have done my school route this morning...
>
>it's just not practical for more than a couple of days to say "we can't get
>there 'cos of the snow".
>
>Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.
Don't understand it. As a kid I lived in a rural village in the Pennine
Dales and we very rarely missed a day at school in the Winter - and the
roads were covered with packed snow.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

hugh wrote:

>>
>>Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.
> Don't understand it. As a kid I lived in a rural village in the
> Pennine Dales and we very rarely missed a day at school in the Winter
> - and the roads were covered with packed snow.

Ditto here across most of Scotland.

I have a distinct feeling that the average aptitude of any given driver
has dropped over the last few years. What has caused this I couldn't
say, but I'm going to blame electrickery and the fact that a car is now
seen as a right rather than a privilege as it used to be.

P.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:38:09 +0000, "Paul S. Brown"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>hugh wrote:
>
>>>
>>>Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.
>> Don't understand it. As a kid I lived in a rural village in the
>> Pennine Dales and we very rarely missed a day at school in the Winter
>> - and the roads were covered with packed snow.
>
>Ditto here across most of Scotland.
>
>I have a distinct feeling that the average aptitude of any given driver
>has dropped over the last few years. What has caused this I couldn't
>say, but I'm going to blame electrickery and the fact that a car is now
>seen as a right rather than a privilege as it used to be.
>
>P.

Is it also possible that modern cars, with wide low profiles are
actually worse in the snow than their narrow tyred forebears?

David

....and Paul S. Brown spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> hugh wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.
>> Don't understand it. As a kid I lived in a rural village in the
>> Pennine Dales and we very rarely missed a day at school in the Winter
>> - and the roads were covered with packed snow.
>
> Ditto here across most of Scotland.
>
> I have a distinct feeling that the average aptitude of any given
> driver has dropped over the last few years. What has caused this I
> couldn't say, but I'm going to blame electrickery and the fact that a
> car is now seen as a right rather than a privilege as it used to be.
>
> P.

No snow in Pembrokeshire this morning, then about lunchtime it came down
thick and fast, about 2" worth. We all got sent home (whooppee) and a
journey that usually takes 20-25 mins took 90. There were no drifts, and no
really slippery conditions, it was just that everyone was driving at 2mph,
then stopping for no reason, then 2mph again. Gridlock over most of the
county. Down here, I think it's because a) no-one has much experience of
it, so it's a "new challenge", and b) the weather people these days make so
much of a meal of any ususual conditions (it may rain tomorrow, so there's a
severe weather warning, and motorists are being advised to stay at home)
that panic sets in before you've even got the stuff scraped off the screen.

As Hugh says, in other parts of the UK we don't think about it. I lived for
many years in East Yorkshire, and the roads were snowbound for weeks at a
time. You learn to deal with it. I never once missed a day's work because
of snow. AND I was driving a 2CV. No Land Rovers for me in those days.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

rads wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:38:09 +0000, "Paul S. Brown"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>hugh wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.
>>>
>>>Don't understand it. As a kid I lived in a rural village in the
>>>Pennine Dales and we very rarely missed a day at school in the Winter
>>>- and the roads were covered with packed snow.
>>
>>Ditto here across most of Scotland.
>>
>>I have a distinct feeling that the average aptitude of any given driver
>>has dropped over the last few years. What has caused this I couldn't
>>say, but I'm going to blame electrickery and the fact that a car is now
>>seen as a right rather than a privilege as it used to be.
>>
>>P.
>
>
> Is it also possible that modern cars, with wide low profiles are
> actually worse in the snow than their narrow tyred forebears?
>
> David

.... and front wheel drive which doesn't allow you to add weight over the
driving wheels.

.... and too much salt on the roads. If one can't practice on snow/ice
you'll never gain any experience.

In message <[email protected]>
hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

> In message <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> writes
> >On or around Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:28:02 +0000, MVP
> ><mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >>tried to take the wife into work this morning...
> >>lesson 1, cornwall county council don't have a clue about how to deal
> >>with snow and ice.
> >>lesson 2, jaguars are hard work in snow and ice.
> >>it took every ounce of driving skill to get as far as I did, before
> >>deciding that I didn't fancy doing the same trip again in a few hours
> >>to pick her up again. have to admit, it'd be well within my abilities
> >>to make that trip in a land rover.
> >>cornwall is currently closed for business.
> >
> >so's this area, or rather the schools are.
> >
> >If we're really going to have a hard winter with lots of snow and ice, we
> >need a bit of a rethink about how we deal with it. I'm buggered if I'm
> >going to lose more then a few days income 'cos of an inch of snow on the
> >road. I reckon I could have done my school route this morning...
> >
> >it's just not practical for more than a couple of days to say "we can't get
> >there 'cos of the snow".
> >
> >Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.
> Don't understand it. As a kid I lived in a rural village in the Pennine
> Dales and we very rarely missed a day at school in the Winter - and the
> roads were covered with packed snow.

I used to ride a motorbike 30 miles each way to my signalbox down miles
of untreated roads - no problem with brain engaged.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>
rads <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:38:09 +0000, "Paul S. Brown"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >hugh wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>>Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.
> >> Don't understand it. As a kid I lived in a rural village in the
> >> Pennine Dales and we very rarely missed a day at school in the Winter
> >> - and the roads were covered with packed snow.
> >
> >Ditto here across most of Scotland.
> >
> >I have a distinct feeling that the average aptitude of any given driver
> >has dropped over the last few years. What has caused this I couldn't
> >say, but I'm going to blame electrickery and the fact that a car is now
> >seen as a right rather than a privilege as it used to be.
> >
> >P.
>
> Is it also possible that modern cars, with wide low profiles are
> actually worse in the snow than their narrow tyred forebears?
>
> David

Not only possible - certain I'd say. Plus they are so highly tuned they
have no torque or engine braking, and drivers are forced to learn to drive
using the brakes and not the gearbox.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

....and beamendsltd spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

>> Don't understand it. As a kid I lived in a rural village in the
>> Pennine Dales and we very rarely missed a day at school in the
>> Winter - and the roads were covered with packed snow.
>
> I used to ride a motorbike 30 miles each way to my signalbox down
> miles of untreated roads - no problem with brain engaged.
>
> Richard

Ditto, including crossing the Humber Bridge. 52 weeks a year.
Character-forming.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

I remember riding my Lambretta scooter on packed snow, I fell off.

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:fe8c71cf4d%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
> I used to ride a motorbike 30 miles each way to my signalbox down miles
> of untreated roads - no problem with brain engaged.
>
> Richard
> --
> www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
> Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
> Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
> Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No snow in Pembrokeshire this morning, then about lunchtime it came down
> thick and fast, about 2" worth. We all got sent home (whooppee) and a
> journey that usually takes 20-25 mins took 90. There were no drifts, and
> no really slippery conditions, it was just that everyone was driving at
> 2mph, then stopping for no reason, then 2mph again. Gridlock over most of
> the county. Down here, I think it's because a) no-one has much experience
> of it, so it's a "new challenge", and b) the weather people these days
> make so much of a meal of any ususual conditions (it may rain tomorrow, so
> there's a severe weather warning, and motorists are being advised to stay
> at home) that panic sets in before you've even got the stuff scraped off
> the screen.
>
> As Hugh says, in other parts of the UK we don't think about it. I lived
> for many years in East Yorkshire, and the roads were snowbound for weeks
> at a time. You learn to deal with it. I never once missed a day's work
> because of snow. AND I was driving a 2CV. No Land Rovers for me in those
> days.

First car to get through the drifts at Ma and Pa's one year was a 2cv. They
are well in the sticks.. definately not a bus route ...well was once when I
directed a double decker along from the nearest village past that way when a
tree came down on the main road. A fallen the tree was likely to jeopardise
my nights drinking with me mates... everyone soon came down off the top
deck.... ah them were the days. Shame I had walked two miles to the bus stop
though only to drive past Ma and Pa's... their faces as we went by were a
picture :0)

Lee D

"Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I remember riding my Lambretta scooter on packed snow, I fell off.
>
> --
> Larry
> Series 3 rust and holes

I've a recollection of viewing clouds between my feet prior to my BMX
landing on me... what can I say.. I'm young ...just a mamouth paperound.

Lee D

On Friday 25 November 2005 14:23, Austin Shackles
[[email protected]] wrote in message
<[email protected]>

> On or around Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:28:02 +0000, MVP
> <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>tried to take the wife into work this morning...
>>lesson 1, cornwall county council don't have a clue about how to deal
>>with snow and ice.
>>lesson 2, jaguars are hard work in snow and ice.
>>it took every ounce of driving skill to get as far as I did, before
>>deciding that I didn't fancy doing the same trip again in a few hours
>>to pick her up again. have to admit, it'd be well within my abilities
>>to make that trip in a land rover.
>>cornwall is currently closed for business.
>
> so's this area, or rather the schools are.
>
> If we're really going to have a hard winter with lots of snow and ice, we
> need a bit of a rethink about how we deal with it. I'm buggered if I'm
> going to lose more then a few days income 'cos of an inch of snow on the
> road. I reckon I could have done my school route this morning...
>
> Most countries seem to manage, don't see why we can't.

Because most countries don't allow their drivers to use semi-slick Summer
tyres all year round? It amused me to see roads being closed because of no
more than 2 inches (5cm) of snow. Feeble. Even my 100E Prefect could handle
that!

I've been driving my Land Rover to work these last few days due to the
forecast of blizzards. NOTHING! Not one soddin' flake of snow here in
Cumbria (southern part at least). Humph!

I think I'll be back on the 125 motorbike next week and use 1/5th the fuel
and be paying the equivalent of 17.6p/litre. God gave us brown fat so we
could ride bikes through Winter.

--
S3 SWB Petrol Hard-top

David wrote
>
> Is it also possible that modern cars, with wide low profiles are
> actually worse in the snow than their narrow tyred forebears?
>
Exactly! It's also why most Defenders will be better on the old skinny
standard Avon tyres than the bigger/wider ones we have all put on.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

On 2005-11-25, Bob Hobden <[email protected]> wrote:

> Exactly! It's also why most Defenders will be better on the old skinny
> standard Avon tyres than the bigger/wider ones we have all put on.

I stick to 750R16s for this reason, I've not off-roaded for a while
now but when I did and ended up in sticky stuff I didn't get stuck
when fat-tyred trucks did, which surprised them for sure. I posted a
request some months ago for taller but skinnier tyres but none seem to
be available, only fat ones!

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2005-11-25, Bob Hobden <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Exactly! It's also why most Defenders will be better on the old skinny
>> standard Avon tyres than the bigger/wider ones we have all put on.
>
> I stick to 750R16s for this reason, I've not off-roaded for a while
> now but when I did and ended up in sticky stuff I didn't get stuck
> when fat-tyred trucks did, which surprised them for sure. I posted a
> request some months ago for taller but skinnier tyres but none seem to
> be available, only fat ones!
>
> --
> For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

Recently went laning at night-time with a few friends. In one place we came
across another group of fellow laners coming in the opposite direction. We
had to pull over to the side and wait for nearly half an hour whilst our
lead man in a bobtailed RRC helped extract their Disco MkI, 110 and 90 from
the mud. They were all on really fat 35" M/T's. Our vehicles, a Cherokee,
RRC and my 90 were all on smaller 235/85 R16 (32" approx)tyres. We drove
through the same section after them without a hitch! We were as suprised as
they were! Must have been the skinnier tyres digging deeper and finding
grip.

Stew.

--
1990 Ninety 2.5 n/a D (Jasmine) - the off-road toy
Ex- Freelander Td4 5dr owner - the worst vehicle I have ever had!!!
New Jeep Cherokee Ltd 2.8CRD Auto - freelander replacement.

On or around Sat, 26 Nov 2005 00:31:48 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On 2005-11-25, Bob Hobden <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Exactly! It's also why most Defenders will be better on the old skinny
>> standard Avon tyres than the bigger/wider ones we have all put on.
>
>I stick to 750R16s for this reason, I've not off-roaded for a while
>now but when I did and ended up in sticky stuff I didn't get stuck
>when fat-tyred trucks did, which surprised them for sure. I posted a
>request some months ago for taller but skinnier tyres but none seem to
>be available, only fat ones!

you can still get 7.50R16 in some ranges, limited tread choices though.

235/85R16 are the next best thing, I suppose - work well on LWB vehicles and
on RR/Discos used off-road.

not convinced that significantly wider ones make sense except for specific
conditions where flotation is more important than grip. Probably valid for
deserts and heavily-laden vehicles.

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Sat, 26 Nov 2005 00:31:48 +0000, Ian Rawlings
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >On 2005-11-25, Bob Hobden <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Exactly! It's also why most Defenders will be better on the old skinny
> >> standard Avon tyres than the bigger/wider ones we have all put on.
> >
> >I stick to 750R16s for this reason, I've not off-roaded for a while
> >now but when I did and ended up in sticky stuff I didn't get stuck
> >when fat-tyred trucks did, which surprised them for sure. I posted a
> >request some months ago for taller but skinnier tyres but none seem to
> >be available, only fat ones!
>
> you can still get 7.50R16 in some ranges, limited tread choices though.
>
> 235/85R16 are the next best thing, I suppose - work well on LWB vehicles and
> on RR/Discos used off-road.
>
> not convinced that significantly wider ones make sense except for specific
> conditions where flotation is more important than grip. Probably valid for
> deserts and heavily-laden vehicles.

General Grabbers are available in 750x16, both raidal and cross-ply.
The raidals have a more agressive tread, but I wore a set of 4 out
in a disappointingly short time. I'm now back on Avon Rangemasters -
750x16 and sensible money from Bronco - what a blessed relief! I've
had various tyres on over the last 4 or 5 years and there's no doubt
about it, the Rangemesters suit 110's very well indeed.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

On 2005-11-26, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm now back on Avon Rangemasters - 750x16 and sensible money from
> Bronco - what a blessed relief! I've had various tyres on over the
> last 4 or 5 years and there's no doubt about it, the Rangemesters
> suit 110's very well indeed.

My truck's currently on Technic Tracker 750R16, remould copies of BFG
MTs if I remember correctly. 60 quid a pop, I didn't want to spend
much cash on tyres used for off-roading after a set of BFG TrakEdges
got shredded within a few months of me buying them by stones. I
ignored the gouges in the tyre walls thinking it'd be OK but a tyre
ripped along one of the gouges while I was doing 80 so I won't be
doing that again.

The Technics have been good, excellent off-road, although initially I
had 5 tyre deflations in one month due to pixies, various more
realistic theories abound revolving around the tubes and the ribbed
interior but nothing that rings true given the events I experienced.
They're fine now and have been for a year and a half, only showing
signs of major wear on the outer edge of one front, so I'll be getting
the tracking checked ASAP.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert