Re: aux lighting and the law

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:25:54 +0000, Mr.Nice.
<markvarleyphoto@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote:

>some lighting questions......
>front aux lights,
>I've seen 100w and 130w spot/driving lights advertised as not for road
>use, I was under the impression that you could wire-up 100w lights
>with the main beam legally, is this the case?

No. Maximum wattage for an auxillary driving light is 60w, also for
Main Beam. Maximum wattage for Dipped is 55w.

>or is there some kind of legal restriction on the number or wattage of
>aux lights for road use? (I'm thinking about a bonnet-mounted light
>pod from QT).

Auxillary driving lights - I don't believe there is a limit on the
number you can have, including the main beams. Maximum of two Dipped
beam lights.

>
>If I get around to fitting lights on the roof can these be wired to
>main beam also?

No. There is a maximum height for auxillary driving lights, IIRC 1.2m
or similar. Lights mounted above this are not permitted for on-road
use (and in some EU countries must, by law, be covered up when the
vehicle is in use on road) Those trucks you see with 4 spots mounted
on the roof are not permitted to use them on-road either.

>
>rear light,
>I have a 55w halogen floodlight (I may see if it'll be happy with a
>100w bulb), can I wire this (through a relay) to the reverse lamp ?
>and does it matter where I mount it? (I was thinking about mounting it
>high).

No. Maximum wattage for reversing light is 25w. Besides, you'd have to
leave the gearbox in reverse for it to work anyway. Also, the wiring
to the reverse light down the car will not be of a suitable rating for
a 55w or 100w load. A floodlight mounted on the rear can be fixed
anywhere you like, as it is not permitted to be used on the road
anyway.

Alex

>
> No. There is a maximum height for auxillary driving lights, IIRC 1.2m
> or similar. Lights mounted above this are not permitted for on-road
> use (and in some EU countries must, by law, be covered up when the
> vehicle is in use on road) Those trucks you see with 4 spots mounted
> on the roof are not permitted to use them on-road either.
>
I very much doubt that is the case, many of the trucks with 4 spotlights on
come from abroad, and I have never seen them covered, and have never heard
of a case of them being prosecuted.
Can you quote any relevant law?


> >
> >rear light,
> >I have a 55w halogen floodlight (I may see if it'll be happy with a
> >100w bulb), can I wire this (through a relay) to the reverse lamp ?
> >and does it matter where I mount it? (I was thinking about mounting it
> >high).
>
> No. Maximum wattage for reversing light is 25w. Besides, you'd have to
> leave the gearbox in reverse for it to work anyway.
>
Isnt that the point of a reversing light?

> Also, the wiring
> to the reverse light down the car will not be of a suitable rating for
> a 55w or 100w load.
>
He did say he was going to wire it through a relay.

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:53:30 +0000 (UTC), "SimonJ" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>
>> No. There is a maximum height for auxillary driving lights, IIRC 1.2m
>> or similar. Lights mounted above this are not permitted for on-road
>> use (and in some EU countries must, by law, be covered up when the
>> vehicle is in use on road) Those trucks you see with 4 spots mounted
>> on the roof are not permitted to use them on-road either.
>>
>I very much doubt that is the case, many of the trucks with 4 spotlights on
>come from abroad, and I have never seen them covered, and have never heard
>of a case of them being prosecuted.
>Can you quote any relevant law?
>
>

No, but I have heard of it within the commercial world. The laws
governing vehicles are exceedingly complex, and different depending on
which country the vehicle is registered in. Take Sweden, with its
Daytime Running Lights, for example.

As for relevant laws, I'm not an expert, but laws differ between
countries within the law. IIRC is a requirement to carry snow chains
at all times in Germany (i'm pretty sure it's germany), but how many
people bother? It is a legal requirement to carry a warning triangle
in many EU countries, but again - who bothers? One or two of the EU
countries make it a legal requirement for those who wear corrective
lenses to have a spare pair in the car. It is compulsory in Greece to
carry a fire extinguisher.

Just because people don't get prosecuted doesn't mean the law isn't
there.

Alex

On or around Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:04:45 GMT, Alex <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:25:54 +0000, Mr.Nice.
><markvarleyphoto@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote:
>
>
>Auxillary driving lights - I don't believe there is a limit on the
>number you can have, including the main beams. Maximum of two Dipped
>beam lights.

I suspect that main-beam-only lights can be pretty much anywhere. Dip beams
must be between 0.5 and 1.2m from the ground.

This one needs putting int he FAQ along with the thing about tyre sizes and
pressures...



excerpts form RVLR 1989: [my comments in square brackets]


schedule 5 [regulations pertaining to obligatory main beams]

2. Position-

(a) Longitudinal: No requirement

(b) Lateral- :-

(i) Where two mainbeam headlamps are required to be fitted- :-

(A) Maximum distance from the side of the vehicle: The outer edges of
the illuminated areas must in no case be closer to the side of the vehicle
than the outer edges of the illuminated areas of the obligatory dippedbeam
headlamps.

(B) Maximum separation distance between a pair of mainbeam
head-lamps:No requirement

[no vertical position requirement - see bottom of posting for the dip beam
position regulation]

5. Markings-

(a) Any vehicle not covered by subparagraph (b), (c) or (d): An approval
mark or a British Standard mark

(b) A motor vehicle first used before 1st April 1986: No requirement

[approval marks - mostly E marks]

7. Colour

White or yellow

10. Electrical connections-

(a) Every mainbeam headlamp shall be so constructed that the light emitted
there- from- :-

(i) can be deflected at the will of the driver to become a dipped
beam, or

(ii) can be extinguished by the operation of a device which at the
same time either- :-

(A) causes the lamp to emit a dipped beam, or

(B) causes another lamp to emit a dipped beam.

(b) Where a matched pair of main-beam headlamps is fitted they shall be
capable of being switched on and off simultaneously and not otherwise

12. Other requirements-

(a) Every mainbeam headlamp shall be so constructed that the direction of
the beam of light emitted therefrom can be adjusted whilst the vehicle is
stationary.

(b) Except in the case of a bus first used before 1st October 1969, where
two mainbeam headlamps are required to be fitted they shall form a matched
pair.


PART II REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO OPTIONAL MAIN-BEAM HEADLAMPS

Any number may be fitted and the only requirements prescribed by these
Regulations in respect of any which are fitted are those specified in
paragraphs 7, 10 and 12(a) of Part I and, in the case of a motor vehicle
first used on or after 1st April 1991, paragraph 5 of Part 1.



Schedule 4 [obligatory dipped beams]

2. Position-

(a) Longitudinal: No requirement

(b) Lateral-

(i) Where two dippedbeam headlamps are required to be fitted- :-

(A) Maximum distance from the side of the vehicle-

(1) Any vehicle not covered by subparagraph (2) or (3): 400mm

(2) A vehicle first used before 1st January 1972: No requirement

(3) An agricultural vehicle, engineering plant and an industrial
tractor: No requirement

(B) Minimum separation distance between a pair of dippedbeam
headlamps: No requirement

(ii) Where one dippedbeam headlamp is required to be fitted-

(A) Any vehicle not covered by subparagraph (B): (i) On the
cen-treline of the motor vehi-cle (disre-garding any sidecar form-ing part
of a motor bicy-cle combina-tion), or (ii) At any dis-tance from the side of
the motor vehicle (dis-regarding any sidecar forming part of a motorbicycle
combina-tion) pro-vided that a duplicate lamp is fit-ted on the other side
so that together they form a matched pair. In such a case, both lamps shall
be regarded as obligatory lamps.

(B) A bus first used before 1st October 1969: No requirement

(c) Vertical-

(i) Maximum height above the ground- :-

(A) Any vehicle not covered by subparagraph (B): 1200mm

(B) A vehicle first used before 1st January 1952, an agricultural
vehicle, a road clearance vehicle, an aerodrome fire tender, an aerodrome
runway sweeper, an industrial tractor, engi-neering plant and a home forces
vehicle: No requirement

(ii) Minimum height above the ground- :-

(A) Any vehicle not covered by subparagraph (B): 500mm

(B) A vehicle first used before 1st January 1956: No requirement

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On or around Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:00:32 +0000, Mr.Nice.
<markvarleyphoto@*nospam*softhome.net> enlightened us thusly:

>>
>>No. There is a maximum height for auxillary driving lights, IIRC 1.2m
>>or similar. Lights mounted above this are not permitted for on-road
>>use (and in some EU countries must, by law, be covered up when the
>>vehicle is in use on road) Those trucks you see with 4 spots mounted
>>on the roof are not permitted to use them on-road either.
>
>alrighty.

see other post

>>>rear light,
>>>I have a 55w halogen floodlight (I may see if it'll be happy with a
>>>100w bulb), can I wire this (through a relay) to the reverse lamp ?
>>>and does it matter where I mount it? (I was thinking about mounting it
>>>high).
>>
>>No. Maximum wattage for reversing light is 25w. Besides, you'd have to
>>leave the gearbox in reverse for it to work anyway. Also, the wiring
>>to the reverse light down the car will not be of a suitable rating for
>>a 55w or 100w load. A floodlight mounted on the rear can be fixed
>>anywhere you like, as it is not permitted to be used on the road
>>anyway.
>
>So if I switched my 'work light' on to help me reverse is that
>naughty?

yep. tsk. slapped wrist, or if you're unlucky, a ticket for something or
other.

it'll be one of the things in C&U or somesuch place: "Used so as to be
illuminated while the vehicle is in motion" or suchlike. There are a raft
of such things, including the one that says it's illegal to use fog lights
when it's not foggy...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

Austin Shackles wrote:

> it'll be one of the things in C&U or somesuch place: "Used so as to
> be illuminated while the vehicle is in motion" or suchlike. There
> are a raft of such things, including the one that says it's illegal
> to use fog lights when it's not foggy...

And we all know how well that one is policed don't we?

On or around Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:13:13 +0000, "Simon Atkinson"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> it'll be one of the things in C&U or somesuch place: "Used so as to
>> be illuminated while the vehicle is in motion" or suchlike. There
>> are a raft of such things, including the one that says it's illegal
>> to use fog lights when it's not foggy...
>
>And we all know how well that one is policed don't we?

yep... so provided you don't get caught driving forwards with it on, I'd
not worry.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10

"Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>> No. There is a maximum height for auxillary driving lights, IIRC 1.2m
>>> or similar. Lights mounted above this are not permitted for on-road
>>> use (and in some EU countries must, by law, be covered up when the
>>> vehicle is in use on road) Those trucks you see with 4 spots mounted
>>> on the roof are not permitted to use them on-road either.
>>>
[Snip]
>>Can you quote any relevant law?
>
> No, but I have heard of it within the commercial world. The laws
> governing vehicles are exceedingly complex, and different depending on
> which country the vehicle is registered in. Take Sweden, with its
> Daytime Running Lights, for example.

I don't know the specifics on this one either, but I have found various
weird bits of law especially into Eastern Europe where things are yet to be
fully integrated into the EU norms, so it's entirely possible.

For example in Poland, running lights (Scandinavian style) are required but
only in winter.

The Austrians annoyed me the most with regulations, insisting on the removal
of a Landie's tyre which was bonnet mounted. They almost tried to insist on
the removal of the mounts, but thought better of it because there were
enough of us to block several lanes of their toll post (at the Brenner Pass


K

> > No. There is a maximum height for auxillary driving lights, IIRC 1.2m
> > or similar. Lights mounted above this are not permitted for on-road
> > use (and in some EU countries must, by law, be covered up when the
> > vehicle is in use on road) Those trucks you see with 4 spots mounted
> > on the roof are not permitted to use them on-road either.
> >
> I very much doubt that is the case, many of the trucks with 4 spotlights
on
> come from abroad, and I have never seen them covered, and have never heard
> of a case of them being prosecuted.
> Can you quote any relevant law?
>
Thinking about it, Scania produce trucks with spotlights built into the sun
visor, over the windscreen. If what you say is true, then one of the worlds
biggest truck manufacturers is producing vehicles which have not been type
approved, and which are illegal!

In message <[email protected]>, Simon Atkinson
<[email protected]> writes
>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> it'll be one of the things in C&U or somesuch place: "Used so as to
>> be illuminated while the vehicle is in motion" or suchlike. There
>> are a raft of such things, including the one that says it's illegal
>> to use fog lights when it's not foggy...
>
>And we all know how well that one is policed don't we?
It's very well policed - by a quick flash on the 440 watts of main beam
and aux lights on the front of my Defender most times I meet one of the
pratts.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

>>
>>No. Maximum wattage for an auxillary driving light is 60w, also for
>>Main Beam. Maximum wattage for Dipped is 55w.
>
> Righty ho, ok so far.
>

There is no maximum wattage stated for obligatory or optional
main beam lamps it does however state that vehicles
"first used after 1st April 1986" the bulbs must have an approval
mark which is only on 60w bulbs BUT as yours is a 1984 LR
then no problem

I had 100/130w in a 1984 Sierra can't say I noticed a big difference
over 55/60w but if it was 4 x 130 extra I should imagine it would help




>>>or is there some kind of legal restriction on the number or wattage of
>>>aux lights for road use? (I'm thinking about a bonnet-mounted light
>>>pod from QT).
>>
>>Auxillary driving lights - I don't believe there is a limit on the
>>number you can have, including the main beams. Maximum of two Dipped
>>beam lights.
>
> okie dokie
>
>>>If I get around to fitting lights on the roof can these be wired to
>>>main beam also?
>>
>>No. There is a maximum height for auxillary driving lights, IIRC 1.2m
>>or similar. Lights mounted above this are not permitted for on-road
>>use (and in some EU countries must, by law, be covered up when the
>>vehicle is in use on road) Those trucks you see with 4 spots mounted
>>on the roof are not permitted to use them on-road either.
>
> alrighty.

Ignore that bit. As Austin has posted there's no maximum height for
optional main beam lights and when installing them fit an override switch
so if you go abroad you can switch them off and just have normal main beam


--
Andy

SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green

On or around Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:47:24 -0000, "Andy.Smalley"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>>>
>>>No. Maximum wattage for an auxillary driving light is 60w, also for
>>>Main Beam. Maximum wattage for Dipped is 55w.
>>
>> Righty ho, ok so far.
>>
>
>There is no maximum wattage stated for obligatory or optional
>main beam lamps it does however state that vehicles
>"first used after 1st April 1986" the bulbs must have an approval
>mark which is only on 60w bulbs BUT as yours is a 1984 LR
>then no problem
>
>I had 100/130w in a 1984 Sierra can't say I noticed a big difference
>over 55/60w but if it was 4 x 130 extra I should imagine it would help

There's a point about wiring to consider. You're uprating the bulb to
more'n twice the design power rating, and therefore you need more'n twice
the current. Chances are none of the wiring, especially on a modern
vehicle, is up to it, and you lose power as a result of resistive losses in
the wire, the same may be true of the fuse and switch or relay. Quite
honestly, I've found that fitting the extra-good-quality "50% brighter"
Philips or other make bulbs makes almost as much difference, and is
incidentally legal as well. 2 of them and a couple of 6"x55W spots makes
more then enough light for road use. Off-road, I'd want at least another
pair of spots, aimed relatively low and divergent, to light up the edges
more.

It's been said of roof-mounted spots that they tend to "flatten" the terrain
by removing the shadows from lumps and holes, and thus aren't as useful as
you thought they would be. They do have the advantage of being above water
level in deep wading, muddy water would make for a shortage of light if it
covered the headlamps. I have seen a picture of a camel disco with half the
roof lights under water, but I suspect that wasn't going according to plan,
somehow.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8

"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> It's very well policed - by a quick flash on the 440 watts of main beam
> and aux lights on the front of my Defender most times I meet one of the
> pratts.

Good so it's not just me who does that then.. tee hee
--
Martin
1988 90 Td5 Converted NAS Replica
www.web-rover.co.uk

On or around Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:18:29 +0000, Mr.Nice.
<markvarleyphoto@*nospam*softhome.net> enlightened us thusly:

>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:48:23 +0000, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>It's been said of roof-mounted spots that they tend to "flatten" the terrain
>>by removing the shadows from lumps and holes, and thus aren't as useful as
>>you thought they would be. They do have the advantage of being above water
>>level in deep wading, muddy water would make for a shortage of light if it
>>covered the headlamps. I have seen a picture of a camel disco with half the
>>roof lights under water, but I suspect that wasn't going according to plan,
>>somehow.
>
>snorkel for the driver and the engine?

well, it had the snorkel for the engine, being a Camel one. I suspect the
driver may have escaped beforehand.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)