Rant: RAC Foundation

Never mind the soddin' AA! Listen to the RAC!

Aren't these guys supposed to be looking after the interests of motorists,
not dreaming up ways to help the Govt screw us even harder?

http://tinyurl.com/l9p5s

"The Chancellor should reduce the cost of the tax disc for the cleanest cars
and increase it for those which produce most CO2, according to the RAC
Foundation in a pre-budget letter to the Chancellor.
The Foundation has suggested a new top band (band G) for the least
fuel-efficient vehicles, balanced by reduced tax for the least polluting, so
as to increase the differential from top to bottom. The RAC Foundation
believes that there should be greater variation in rates of Vehicle Excise
Duty in order to promote low emission vehicles. Further tax changes will
give private motorists more of an incentive to opt for cleaner, greener
vehicles."

I do believe they are suggesting a band of £200 for the largest vehicles.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but if my car does 20mpg, and my wife's does
40mpg, am I not already paying twice the fuel duty? In other words, don't
the most polluting vehicles already pay more? Does Gordon Brown really need
the extra encouragement? What is it with this Uncle Tom attitude the RAC
seem to have these days?

I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone suggest a
good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and
those who don't.

Richard Brookman <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:
> Never mind the soddin' AA! Listen to the RAC!
>
> Aren't these guys supposed to be looking after the interests of
> motorists, not dreaming up ways to help the Govt screw us even harder?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/l9p5s
>
> "The Chancellor should reduce the cost of the tax disc for the
> cleanest cars and increase it for those which produce most CO2,
> according to the RAC Foundation in a pre-budget letter to the
> Chancellor. The Foundation has suggested a new top band (band G) for the
> least
> fuel-efficient vehicles, balanced by reduced tax for the least
> polluting, so as to increase the differential from top to bottom. The
> RAC Foundation believes that there should be greater variation in
> rates of Vehicle Excise Duty in order to promote low emission
> vehicles. Further tax changes will give private motorists more of an
> incentive to opt for cleaner, greener vehicles."
>
> I do believe they are suggesting a band of £200 for the largest
> vehicles.
> Now correct me if I am wrong, but if my car does 20mpg, and my wife's
> does 40mpg, am I not already paying twice the fuel duty? In other
> words, don't the most polluting vehicles already pay more? Does
> Gordon Brown really need the extra encouragement? What is it with
> this Uncle Tom attitude the RAC seem to have these days?
>
> I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone
> suggest a good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?

read this article...

<http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1094823518,14076,#beasts>

Lee
--
www.lrproject.com

> I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone suggest a
> good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?

I have to say that I do agree with this. To be honest, if I could
afford to buy a new car, the fact that the difference between the
lowest tax band and the highest being £95 a year (£8/month?)
wouldn't make any difference to me deciding which engine to choose.
Within any model range the difference between the best and worst
engines is unlikely to be at the extremes, so more likely to be
£20-50 difference per year - who's going to bother about that?

The only time it is going to make any difference to anyone is when
the cars are 5+ years old at which point buyers are fussier about
overall running costs - and by that time - the engine that is in the
car is already in it, so it is not going to make so much of a
difference to the environment as it has already been running around for
years!

However, if the worst performing engines (in terms of CO2 emissions)
were heavily taxed, then it might start to make a difference.

Sorry! Shoot me down in flames now!

Matt.

"Matthew Maddock" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>> I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone suggest
>> a good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?
>
> I have to say that I do agree with this. To be honest, if I could
> afford to buy a new car, the fact that the difference between the
> lowest tax band and the highest being £95 a year (£8/month?)
> wouldn't make any difference to me deciding which engine to choose.
> Within any model range the difference between the best and worst
> engines is unlikely to be at the extremes, so more likely to be
> £20-50 difference per year - who's going to bother about that?
>
> The only time it is going to make any difference to anyone is when
> the cars are 5+ years old at which point buyers are fussier about
> overall running costs - and by that time - the engine that is in the
> car is already in it, so it is not going to make so much of a
> difference to the environment as it has already been running around for
> years!
>
> However, if the worst performing engines (in terms of CO2 emissions)
> were heavily taxed, then it might start to make a difference.
>
> Sorry! Shoot me down in flames now!
>
> Matt.

Then of course there is the point to be made that producing a car in the
first place produces vast CO2 emissions Approx 1 ton per car and 27 tons of
waste to despose of I assumed by incineration more so even more CO2. So if
you change cars every say 5 years you cannot use said cars for half that
time as the production emissions produced far exceed the running emissions
of a 10 year old Range Rover Overfinch- thats statistics for you like lies
but more believeable http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

One more set of statistics UK 4th largest economy in the world production of
CO2 ?
2% of world production about the same as a large US state - I reckon we
could get it down to 1.5% if we drowned a few politicians.
If we do everything in the UK to save energy it will make the same
difference as pouring a bucket of water in the Titanic so long as a certain
president is in the pocket of the oil industry of the world. Lets do sod all
and see who blinks first when Lousiana and Florida are underwater.- and
remember when he goes he has a brother and the bugger is a politician too
and he knows how statistics lie!
Derek

In message <[email protected]>
"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Richard Brookman <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
> about:
> > Never mind the soddin' AA! Listen to the RAC!
> >
> > Aren't these guys supposed to be looking after the interests of
> > motorists, not dreaming up ways to help the Govt screw us even harder?
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/l9p5s
> >
> > "The Chancellor should reduce the cost of the tax disc for the
> > cleanest cars and increase it for those which produce most CO2,
> > according to the RAC Foundation in a pre-budget letter to the
> > Chancellor. The Foundation has suggested a new top band (band G) for the
> > least
> > fuel-efficient vehicles, balanced by reduced tax for the least
> > polluting, so as to increase the differential from top to bottom. The
> > RAC Foundation believes that there should be greater variation in
> > rates of Vehicle Excise Duty in order to promote low emission
> > vehicles. Further tax changes will give private motorists more of an
> > incentive to opt for cleaner, greener vehicles."
> >
> > I do believe they are suggesting a band of £200 for the largest
> > vehicles.
> > Now correct me if I am wrong, but if my car does 20mpg, and my wife's
> > does 40mpg, am I not already paying twice the fuel duty? In other
> > words, don't the most polluting vehicles already pay more? Does
> > Gordon Brown really need the extra encouragement? What is it with
> > this Uncle Tom attitude the RAC seem to have these days?
> >
> > I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone
> > suggest a good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?
>
> read this article...
>
> <http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1094823518,14076,#beasts>
>
> Lee

I'm affraid my experiences of local call-outs is dire - on every
occasion they have failed to fix or diagnose the problem and they
carry very limted tools (if any) and no spares. The bloke who recovered
out 7.5 tonner (he completely missed a broken wire on the alternator
harness and deliberately broke the lift pump) quite happiliy admitted
that it "was more fun and better paid" to get the recovery truck out.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>
"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Never mind the soddin' AA! Listen to the RAC!
>
> Aren't these guys supposed to be looking after the interests of motorists,
> not dreaming up ways to help the Govt screw us even harder?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/l9p5s
>
> "The Chancellor should reduce the cost of the tax disc for the cleanest cars
> and increase it for those which produce most CO2, according to the RAC
> Foundation in a pre-budget letter to the Chancellor.
> The Foundation has suggested a new top band (band G) for the least
> fuel-efficient vehicles, balanced by reduced tax for the least polluting, so
> as to increase the differential from top to bottom. The RAC Foundation
> believes that there should be greater variation in rates of Vehicle Excise
> Duty in order to promote low emission vehicles. Further tax changes will
> give private motorists more of an incentive to opt for cleaner, greener
> vehicles."
>
> I do believe they are suggesting a band of £200 for the largest vehicles.
>
> Now correct me if I am wrong, but if my car does 20mpg, and my wife's does
> 40mpg, am I not already paying twice the fuel duty? In other words, don't
> the most polluting vehicles already pay more? Does Gordon Brown really need
> the extra encouragement? What is it with this Uncle Tom attitude the RAC
> seem to have these days?
>
> I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone suggest a
> good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?
>

The trouble is that both the AA and RAC are companies now, rather
than "clubs", so all the senior executives and PR people are far
more interested in their next career move rather than their customers
(why do they still try and pretend we are members?), so no rocking
the boat as being seen to tow the line looks much better on the CV.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

....and Lee_D spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

>> I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone
>> suggest a good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?
>
> read this article...
>
> <http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1094823518,14076,#beasts>
>
> Lee

Thanks Lee - never seen that site before.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.

On or around Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:05:42 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <[email protected]>
> "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Never mind the soddin' AA! Listen to the RAC!
>>
>> Aren't these guys supposed to be looking after the interests of motorists,
>> not dreaming up ways to help the Govt screw us even harder?
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/l9p5s
>>
>> "The Chancellor should reduce the cost of the tax disc for the cleanest cars
>> and increase it for those which produce most CO2, according to the RAC
>> Foundation in a pre-budget letter to the Chancellor.
>> The Foundation has suggested a new top band (band G) for the least
>> fuel-efficient vehicles, balanced by reduced tax for the least polluting, so
>> as to increase the differential from top to bottom. The RAC Foundation
>> believes that there should be greater variation in rates of Vehicle Excise
>> Duty in order to promote low emission vehicles. Further tax changes will
>> give private motorists more of an incentive to opt for cleaner, greener
>> vehicles."
>>
>> I do believe they are suggesting a band of £200 for the largest vehicles.
>>
>> Now correct me if I am wrong, but if my car does 20mpg, and my wife's does
>> 40mpg, am I not already paying twice the fuel duty? In other words, don't
>> the most polluting vehicles already pay more? Does Gordon Brown really need
>> the extra encouragement? What is it with this Uncle Tom attitude the RAC
>> seem to have these days?
>>
>> I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone suggest a
>> good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?
>>
>
>The trouble is that both the AA and RAC are companies now, rather
>than "clubs", so all the senior executives and PR people are far
>more interested in their next career move rather than their customers
>(why do they still try and pretend we are members?), so no rocking
>the boat as being seen to tow the line looks much better on the CV.

.... feck'em...

not sure about alternatives. Green flag get spoken of in a good light
sometimes.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

On or around Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:47:35 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>read this article...

Lee, your newsreader seems to be breaking threading. dunno if it's
fixable...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:23:18 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone suggest a
>good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?

I bought a SIIA 109" about 4 years ago, with a Harvey Frost on the
back, so now i do my own recoveries.

http://www.cbmsys.co.uk/photo/cars/IIa109-Rear.jpg

Alex

Austin Shackles <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> On or around Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:47:35 -0000, "Lee_D"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>> read this article...
>
> Lee, your newsreader seems to be breaking threading. dunno if it's
> fixable...

Dunno either .. QE 6 with quotefix.... For some reason it chopped the RANT:
bit... life is just too short to worry!

:-D

Lee

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:54:09 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> scribbled the following
nonsense:

>Austin Shackles <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
>funny about:
>> On or around Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:47:35 -0000, "Lee_D"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>
>>> read this article...
>>
>> Lee, your newsreader seems to be breaking threading. dunno if it's
>> fixable...
>
>Dunno either .. QE 6 with quotefix.... For some reason it chopped the RANT:
>bit... life is just too short to worry!
>
>:-D
>
>Lee
>

I used to use OE, now a convert to agent, much better!
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body shell, being bobbed and modded.....

Simon Isaacs <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>> Dunno either .. QE 6 with quotefix.... For some reason it chopped
>> the RANT: bit... life is just too short to worry!
>>
>> :-D
>>
>> Lee
>>
>
> I used to use OE, now a convert to agent, much better!

Yeah used it for the free trial period.... then I got all tight.. I didn't
particularly like the layout and it's habbit of putting For sale postings
all in one thread, fo instance some one posts FS: IIa , then every other IIa
that gets advertised with the same title ends up in that thread... helpful
with all the Test posts though. Other than that it worked but got a bit on
me nipples

;-)

Besides I get nice smileys with quotefix :-D ;-) ;-p and all that malarky.

Lee

On or around Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:07:06 +0000, Alex
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:23:18 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone suggest a
>>good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?
>
>I bought a SIIA 109" about 4 years ago, with a Harvey Frost on the
>back, so now i do my own recoveries.
>
>http://www.cbmsys.co.uk/photo/cars/IIa109-Rear.jpg
>

nice. what happens when that one breaks down though?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"You praise the firm restraint with which they write -_
I'm with you there, of course: They use the snaffle and the bit
alright, but where's the bloody horse? - Roy Campbell (1902-1957)

In article <[email protected]>, Richard Brookman
<[email protected]> writes
>I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone suggest a
>good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?
>

I'm fairly sure that the RAC foundation is a totally different
organisation to the one that comes out to fix (or not) your vehicle. I
think the "man in the van" bit is now an offshoot of Norwich Union.


Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "news" with "adrian" and "nospam" with "ffoil"
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

On or around Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:58:43 +0000, Adrian Simpson
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In article <[email protected]>, Richard Brookman
><[email protected]> writes
>>I'm thinking of ripping up my RAC membership in protest. Anyone suggest a
>>good alternative (and NOT the AA, thanks very much)?
>>
>
>I'm fairly sure that the RAC foundation is a totally different
>organisation to the one that comes out to fix (or not) your vehicle. I
>think the "man in the van" bit is now an offshoot of Norwich Union.

I think the RAC still exists as a Gentlemens' club in London, too, now
independent of the man-in-van bit.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young / In a world
of magnets and miracles / Our thoughts strayed constantly and without
boundary / The ringing of the Division bell had begun. Pink Floyd (1994)

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:30:16 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Yeah used it for the free trial period.... then I got all tight.. I didn't
>particularly like the layout and it's habbit of putting For sale postings
>all in one thread, fo instance some one posts FS: IIa , then every other IIa
>that gets advertised with the same title ends up in that thread... helpful
>with all the Test posts though. Other than that it worked but got a bit on
>me nipples

There is a free version of agent too! (doesnt the full version become
this after the trial is up?)
It gets on my nerves too how it groups things with the same titles
together even if there is 3 year between the threads - but its less
annoying than OE!

On or around Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:57:06 +0000, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:30:16 -0000, "Lee_D"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Yeah used it for the free trial period.... then I got all tight.. I didn't
>>particularly like the layout and it's habbit of putting For sale postings
>>all in one thread, fo instance some one posts FS: IIa , then every other IIa
>>that gets advertised with the same title ends up in that thread... helpful
>>with all the Test posts though. Other than that it worked but got a bit on
>>me nipples
>
>There is a free version of agent too! (doesnt the full version become
>this after the trial is up?)
>It gets on my nerves too how it groups things with the same titles
>together even if there is 3 year between the threads - but its less
>annoying than OE!

there are other options. Thunderbird, Microplanet Gravity...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:57:06 +0000, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:30:16 -0000, "Lee_D"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Yeah used it for the free trial period.... then I got all tight.. I didn't
>>particularly like the layout and it's habbit of putting For sale postings
>>all in one thread, fo instance some one posts FS: IIa , then every other IIa
>>that gets advertised with the same title ends up in that thread... helpful
>>with all the Test posts though. Other than that it worked but got a bit on
>>me nipples
>
>There is a free version of agent too! (doesnt the full version become
>this after the trial is up?)
>It gets on my nerves too how it groups things with the same titles
>together even if there is 3 year between the threads - but its less
>annoying than OE!

Tom,

You should e able to sort the way Agents sorts messages by going to
"View" and then "Sort Messages by" and select how you want the
messages sorted.

I prefer sorted by date and oldest tthread first.

regards

nemo2

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:16:21 +0000, nemo2 <[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom,
>
>You should e able to sort the way Agents sorts messages by going to
>"View" and then "Sort Messages by" and select how you want the
>messages sorted.
>
>I prefer sorted by date and oldest tthread first.

It sticks threads with the same title together.

for example, there is an old thread called "101 wheel update" (from
19/03/2003) which is still present in my agent database.

If I, or anybody else was to now post a new thread with that same
title it will get stuck onto the existing "101 wheel update" rather
than showing up as a new thread.
This means that I will probably miss it