Power steering diagnosis help

congo181 · Jun 13, 2023

Hi all.
The power steering on the 110 has gone very stiff, but not being familiar with these, I’m not sure where to look to decide what’s at fault.

It worked ok after the rebuild but I hadn’t touched any of it except replace the front hoses.
Now it’s very stiff to turn the wheel and gets worse when warmed up.

Can someone point me in the right direction to diagnose either the pump, the box or some other item?

Cheers.
Jim

miktdish · Jun 13, 2023

Is there any difference when the engine is running ?
Is the PAS bottle full ?

congo181 · Jun 13, 2023

miktdish said:
Is there any difference when the engine is running ?
Is the PAS bottle full ?

Hi Mik
Yes the fluid is full, although the level does seem to drop very slowly indicating a leak I guess.

There’s deffo some PAS action with the engine running, but not as much as there was.
There’s a squeal from the box when I turn the wheel. It’s a 6 bolt box if that’s useful info.
Cheers, Jim

lynall · Jun 13, 2023

Crack pas pipe fitting with engine running, decent squirt of fluid would suggest pump is okay and box may be at fault.
What engine is it? 200 tdi defender snap the pas pump input shaft, happened to me twice.
Suction hose reinforced style? ie is it collapsing under suction from pas pump?
Is there a filter mesh in the pas reservoir?

Always worth checking all the ball joints and swivels are free when jacked up.

Brown · Jun 13, 2023

It's definitely the box squeaking, is it? I'd be more inclined to think it was something up with the pump making the belt slip (at least initially), hence the squeak. Last time this happened to me it turned out to be the pump at fault. It was also leaking. Fortunately not too dear to replace and not too hard either.

congo181 · Jun 13, 2023

lynall said:
Crack pas pipe fitting with engine running, decent squirt of fluid would suggest pump is okay and box may be at fault.
What engine is it? 200 tdi defender snap the pas pump input shaft, happened to me twice.
Suction hose reinforced style? ie is it collapsing under suction from pas pump?
Is there a filter mesh in the pas reservoir?

Always worth checking all the ball joints and swivels are free when jacked up.

Hi Lynall.
I cracked the Bleed nipple on the top of the box and got some good pressure when turning the wheel so I know the pumps pumping.
It’s a 12J. The pipes across the front to the pump are both new. When you say the suction pipe do you mean the one coming out the bottom of the reservoir?

I’ll try the swivels as you suggest.

congo181 · Jun 13, 2023

Brown said:
It's definitely the box squeaking, is it? I'd be more inclined to think it was something up with the pump making the belt slip (at least initially), hence the squeak. Last time this happened to me it turned out to be the pump at fault. It was also leaking. Fortunately not too dear to replace and not too hard either.

Hi Brown
It only squeaks when I put pressure in the Geering wheel. It deffo seems to be from the box but I’ll get a third ear to do or check. I’d be happy if it was the pump as they’re a lot cheaper than the boxes!

Brown · Jun 13, 2023

Yes, when you're not turning the wheel the system isn't working very hard and the pump is easy to spin. It becomes stiffer when you're trying to turn the wheels. We had one of those 4 litre Princess jobbies many years ago (looks a bit like an Austin Westminster but without the fins on the rear) and you could almost stall the engine by turning the steering wheel on tickover.

That's another thing - have you had a look at the texture of the power steering fluid? On another car once upon a time the reservoir was pressurizing and the fluid had turned into pink froth. It turned out that air was getting sucked in upstream of the pump, which the pump was then mashing up into tiny bubbles. Taking apart and re-sealing the hoses on the upstream side of the pump improved matters.

congo181 · Jun 13, 2023

Brown said:
Yes, when you're not turning the wheel the system isn't working very hard and the pump is easy to spin. It becomes stiffer when you're trying to turn the wheels. We had one of those 4 litre Princess jobbies many years ago (looks a bit like an Austin Westminster but without the fins on the rear) and you could almost stall the engine by turning the steering wheel on tickover.

That's another thing - have you had a look at the texture of the power steering fluid? On another car once upon a time the reservoir was pressurizing and the fluid had turned into pink froth. It turned out that air was getting sucked in upstream of the pump, which the pump was then mashing up into tiny bubbles. Taking apart and re-sealing the hoses on the upstream side of the pump improved matters.

There are some bubbles coming back into the system. Perhaps that’s the issue.

lynall · Jun 13, 2023

congo181 said:
Hi Lynall.
I cracked the Bleed nipple on the top of the box and got some good pressure when turning the wheel so I know the pumps pumping.
It’s a 12J. The pipes across the front to the pump are both new. When you say the suction pipe do you mean the one coming out the bottom of the reservoir?

I’ll try the swivels as you suggest.

Yes suction is fat hose from res to pump..

Brown · Jun 13, 2023

congo181 said:
There are some bubbles coming back into the system. Perhaps that’s the issue.

Yes, it could be. The air bubbles are slightly elastic, so the fluid no longer transmits the pressure effectively. A bit like air bubbles in the brake fluid.

congo181 · Jun 17, 2023

Thanks for everyone help - fixed the PAS issue.
The pre-made suction pipe to the pump had a crimp missing on the flexible pipe. Addition of a jubilee stopped the air getting sucked in and all it now good.
Also, being under the engine allowed me to spot the water running out of one of the heater (hahahah heater!!!) hoses so that’s probably an overheating breakdown averted too.
Cheers, Jim

Power steering diagnosis help

congo181

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miktdish

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congo181

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lynall

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Brown

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congo181

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Brown

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