Please help! - midway through expedition wheel wobble!

Hi,

I have been reading posts on here for a while as i have been building an expedition 110 and they have always helped massively. i have read all relevant posts on this problem and all to no avail.

Essentially, the problem is a violent wobble "death wobble" that builds first through the steering and then shaking the whole body of the car almost off the road.

It happens at completely random intervals, with no consistency, sometimes after cornering doing 25, sometimes at 65 on the motorway having been fine for 100 miles.

I am now in spain, my local landy specialist told me it was the steering damper, which was changed before i left, and seemd to do the trick, for about 700 miles, until the problem returned in the middle of france. got out to a friends in spain, had the entire steering and suspension checked; no problems found. so decided it must just be the huge wheels i was running ruining different components.

so i got a decent second hand set of wheels and tyres, back to regular sizes, and to be safe as the vehicle is well loaded, ordered some parts and double dampered the front and rear. i really thought id cracked it. another 700 miles through the pyrenees without a hitch, then all of a sudden it came back. now worse than ever, cant even drive for 5 mins without there being a problem.

i could systematically change everything, but i have limited time and resources out here. the obvious things all seem fine, panhard rod, track rod ends, bushes, swivels etc.

the problem is that everythign i seem to change acts only as a temporary fix, and every time only gets me a few hundred miles further from home and harder to fix!

any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers

wheel wobble - Land rover 110 - YouTube

link to a video taken during the wobble.

I may be wrong, but if the 110 has an A-Frame on the rear suspension, like the Discovery, it would be worth checking that. A friends Disco has a similar thing happen, which we eventually traced to the A-Frame ball joint and bushes. Can't recall if his was as violent, but it had certainly left him white as a sheet ..

it's worth changing the drop arm on the steering box, sorted my death wobble out,

I'd chenged just about everything else trying with no luck but that was an instant fix

Id get the wheels re balenced but spun up on the machine first to see if there out at all . then I'd systematically go through everything starting at the steering wheel and work your way down checking for any play/movement etc + checking all the bushes at the back .
If nothing crops up remove the front prop and go for a spin ( diff lock in ) , if still there refit prop and remove the rear and do the same .
Should give you something to go on .

So why would the rear A frame ball joint cause a wobble on the front?

No idea, it happened. I'd guess that it allowed the rear axle to wander, but again I have no idea why that would translate to steering wheel wobble.

Check for play in panhard rod bushes , freeplay in swivel hubs, freeplay in ball joints on steering components. including drop arm to shaft. Wheel un balance usually comes into force at speed but the bigger the diameter of wheel the lower the onset speed.
You need to be quite forceful when checking bushes, securing bolts as they may appear tight but become loose under increased load. Dont forget the unijoints in steering column . When you say double dampered front and rear , not likely to be relevant , but the actual damper on steering track rod can be very important , make sure its right damper . and bushes tight . HTSH

How much load is there ,ie, kg on your roof rack? i had simlar prob's on my 110 last summer turned out to be weight canoo's jerry cans etc and with no Ant roll bars yes it was heary at times having looked at all the obvius could"nt sort it to save my worthless life,untill winter came and took all the stuf of the rack and in to the garage. hey presto drives staight as arrow..:doh:

Just looked at your video mate ,that,s not a woblle that,s a bloody bone shaker and the sound of it could it be cluch related??? .Come on fellas get that grey matter going let's help the old boy.:screaming_bug_eye_f

Funkykipper said:

So why would the rear A frame ball joint cause a wobble on the front?

Click to expand...

I had same problem on the 90. changed front shocks all the bushes on panhard rod, radius arms etc, steering damper. Was still there so rebuilt both front swivels inc new swivel balls, Didn't help at all. then checked rear trailing arms and arm to chassis bushes were fooked. changed them. Shake disappeared and 90 was fine afterwards.

redhand said:

I had same problem on the 90. changed front shocks all the bushes on panhard rod, radius arms etc, steering damper. Was still there so rebuilt both front swivels inc new swivel balls, Didn't help at all. then checked rear trailing arms and arm to chassis bushes were fooked. changed them. Shake disappeared and 90 was fine afterwards.

Click to expand...

Bloody hell that sounds the same as mine. Done most of all you mentioned so maybe I should look to the rear.

My 110 CSW has had that problem in the past and I think everyone has suggested the usual fixes. Could also be the steering backlash adjustment on the steering box. I know it sounds daft but also check to see if the worn damper was actually a steering damper and not a shock absorber ( I have heard of that happening) . Dampers have even pressure both ways shocks don't. Mostly it's check every bush, un and steering component

Handbrake drums full of crap? Caused problems on mine even when stood ! Shook like hell, hope you sort it n good luck on your travels

thanks for all of the responses, they were all translated into spanish and listed off to the first mechanic i took it too. he had everything apart, all bushes checked front and rear and everything mentioned. couldnt find a problem. in my pigeon spanish i managed to get that he thought it must be a problem with the diff, and suggested taking that apart. i thought id check out everything else and get a second opinion. found a specialist in modified 4x4s he took one look at the video and laughed. after the morning sitting in his garage fourcourt, he showed me how (again pigeon spanish) the tyre tread wear patterns were a giveaway. so for any of you experiencing similar problems:

apparently tread wear on the outside of the tyre, can mean a few things but coupled with the wobble, means its either the shocks, or the camber/castor angles. I knew the shocks were fine, so the angles were checked, and sure enough, both were way out. used to have a suspension raise and stupidly assumed that when the garage took the plates out, they corrected the steering geometry. in retrospect should have been my first thought. anyway, he fiddled with the angles, and it seems to drive fine now.

Apart from updating you all and thanking you for your help, i was wondering if this sounds like it could be the root, or if you all think that, like everything else, this will helpp for a few hundred miles, then go back to wanting to slam me in a ditch?

Thanks again.

Glad you got it sorted. Thanks for the update and i'm sure it'll be food for thought for a few, including me with my 5 inch lift.

Sounds like you found it .. nice one. Thanks for getting back and letting us know ..

wouldnt be camber angle .more like tracking

Camber angles can be affected by Kingpin (swivels) bearings loose worn/collapsed, incorrect preload but are in general a fixed angle. Caster could be affected by worn bushes in front hockey sticks, OR if it had a suspension lift that had been removed did it have castor corrected arms fitted. If so are they still on the vehicle ? if it is now standard ride height the caster angle will be wrong and could cause those problems.