p38 fuel probs

Hi just bought my self a 1996 P38 2.5 bmw diesel rangerover, from the auction... needs a fair bit of work though got my self a long to do list which im sure ill be begging for help with soon lol.

Heres my story so far...

Drove it home, kept on cutting out on way home, usualy when i started slowing down to turn it would just cut out. restarting took a while to crank over.

Parked it up, tested glowplugs all dead, replaced them, along with oil, oil and air filter. Got fuel filter but going to put that on tomorow.

Tried to start after changing the oil but the battery has now decided to die tried recharging for afew hours but it wont hold a charge...


Any way i was looking at the fuel filter and noticed you got the pipe coming into the filter i asume from the fuel tank, then a pipe coming out which i assume goes to the fuel injection pump, this pipe also has some sort of valve in it, non return valve? Anyway before the valve i see the pipe is full of fuel, then after the valve the pipe is empty?

Anyone know if this is this normal with the engine switched off? Or should the pipe before and after this valve be constantly full of fuel.

Diagramme below to show what im looking at

The valve is something that has been put on after, the pipe from the fuel filter should just be a straight link to the FIP. The valve may have been installed to try and aid with hot starting problems.

I would remove the valve and replace the pipe and see what happens then, when the engine is off, even after being left overnight you should still have fuel sitting in that line. A slight air bubble at the point it starts curving down into the FIP seems to be normal though.

Have you also replaced all the leak off pipes?? Seems a good idea if you are doing general maintenance and a tune up of the engine. If these are cracked then they will let air in which will cause poor starting.

With regards to it cutting out are you getting any error messages on the message centre when it does?? Just wondering whether the previous owner might have installed a cheapo hot start fix as well. Check all the wiring round the coolant temp sensor and also remove the battery cover and then undo the engine ECU cover and look for any new and bodged wiring.

Let us know what you find, oh and, welcome to the mad house

-Wills

Hi thanks for the quick reply,
Ahh didnt know that, ill have to source a new pipe then, theres a slight fuel leak around the first two injectors, so ill replace the leak off pipes then, what about the high pressure pipes do you think i should attack these too?

No error messages when it cuts out, no nosises or anything dont even realise its died, I think not 100% though that the fuel injector light might have come on when it does it.

Ill have a good look as you say in the morning then see if i find anything.

No, the high pressure pipes won't need any attention, well, at least I wouldn't of thought they did, never heard of them needing attention before.

I am having my FIP repaired at the moment and actually asked whether I should be thinking about replacing any of the high pressure pipes and was told that they are pretty much bullet proof so I assume you shouldn't have any problems unless you can see a visible leak or something.

Im just wondering if your cutting out problem might be caused by that valve in your fuel line especially as the line is empty when you switch off, don't really know- see what happens when you get rid of the one way valve thingy.

-Wills

Would agree with all the above. The fuel systems on these tend to get tired after a few years. The general train of thought is wear in the FIP causes bad hot starting, and as mentioned there is a work around for this using a relay and resistor, but ensure you go for the timed relay method. A good friend of mine melted a piston on his DSE, by using a non-timed. Also they can suffer from cracks in the pick up tube on the in tank pump, which causes poor starting when the fuel level is low. Get OE glow plugs, not cheap patterns, the difference is amazing when compared on the bench.

Just orderd all the pipes you suggested from landrover, supposed to be due in a couple of days. Also replaced the fuel filter now so fingers crossed the stalling was just down to these. I think fitting a FIP if i need one is beyond me with all the timing to do etc, anyone fitted one themselves?

Battery still not arrived still havnt had enough power to start it yet grr.

I replaced the front passenger window regulator today sucessfuly as it didnt close all the way up, afew of the teeth on it were sheared off. It still bleeps at me window not set though but hey at least it now closes and doesnt sound like im being shot at when going up.

Another problem i got on my list i forgot to say is when driving home soon as i hit 50mph the car wobbled pretty badly, checked the wheel bearing and wheels were on tight no problem there, will get the wheels balanced once it starts.
Ive just taken off the steering damper though to test, its got abit of resistance to push down but it doesnt try push back up at all, would i be right in thinking that it should bounce back up when you push down on it?


Dodgy wiring checking is still on my list lol

If it did you would be driving in circles all the time There should be even resistance on compression and when you extend it. I had a wobble on mine at 50mph, had both front balanced and it was still there. Wasnt till I had a pair of tyres the same make and spec that it went.

bond23 said:

Just orderd all the pipes you suggested from landrover, supposed to be due in a couple of days. Also replaced the fuel filter now so fingers crossed the stalling was just down to these. I think fitting a FIP if i need one is beyond me with all the timing to do etc, anyone fitted one themselves?

Battery still not arrived still havnt had enough power to start it yet grr.

I replaced the front passenger window regulator today sucessfuly as it didnt close all the way up, afew of the teeth on it were sheared off. It still bleeps at me window not set though but hey at least it now closes and doesnt sound like im being shot at when going up.

Another problem i got on my list i forgot to say is when driving home soon as i hit 50mph the car wobbled pretty badly, checked the wheel bearing and wheels were on tight no problem there, will get the wheels balanced once it starts.
Ive just taken off the steering damper though to test, its got abit of resistance to push down but it doesnt try push back up at all, would i be right in thinking that it should bounce back up when you push down on it?


Dodgy wiring checking is still on my list lol

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If you are going to be getting ye bits from LR make sure when you goto pay you say you want the Allegiance discount which should give you a 10% discount - tis a scheme for vehicles over X amount of years old (can't remember the proper number of years) and you get that 10% off which doesn't sound much but still worth having I think. If you need your bits in a hurry, tell the parts guy and ask him to order them VOR (vehicle off road) and as long as you order before 4pm they should get the parts in next working day - if you do this though you don't get the discount.

The FIP scared me away as well, I dont have the tools to do it either so this is why my P38 has gone into my specialists for a few days to have mine sorted out. He has had the pump off and its now away being refurbished and will hopefully be back ASAP! I know other members on the board, Joshydee for example, have removed and refitted their FIP with no probs but I think they have had the tools and time to fiddle, might be worth PM'g Josh if yu need guidance. I know you will need the tool to hold the pump sproket in place while removing the pump at the very least. You can get away with the timing thing by marking the pump, this is no good though if you are doing a full replacement. I think you will find that once you get your new bits and bobs through your problems will have vanished though.

To set the window so the message centre doesnt beep, put the window down and then as soon as its down immediately, without taking your finger off the button put it back up and continue holding the button and you should get a bit with the message LH-F WINDOW SET or something similar.

Steering damper is as rewmer said.

-Wills

rewmer said:

If it did you would be driving in circles all the time There should be even resistance on compression and when you extend it. I had a wobble on mine at 50mph, had both front balanced and it was still there. Wasnt till I had a pair of tyres the same make and spec that it went.

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Haha, I think its fine then one less item to replace for now. Ill have to check the tryes to see if i can swap then round to put 2 good same make tryes on the front.


Wills cheers for that, 10% sounds bloody good to me! Better than full price. I only go to the stealers kicking and screaming normally but most local motorfactors struggle to get less common parts like single pipes and things.

Will bare that in mind if i have to cross that bridge then. Ooh dint know that about the windows ill try that hopefully thatll sort the beeping dash then

I spose the regular DIY is all part of the fun in owning a range rover then?! I knew what i was letting myself in for, becase its a range rover i dont mind fixing it, if it was a fiat or something i think i would have put a spanner through the windscreen by now.

Ok, just got a new battery, before trying to start i have removed the non return valve thingy, my pipe hasnt arrived yet so to test i just removed it and clipped some hose i found into it as a temporary measure.

Car cranked over for a minute then died, no fuel is coming out of the filter pipe by the way i filled the filter with fuel as well before putting it on.

So does this mean my fuel pump is goosed? Theres a quater of a tank of fuel in the car. I opened the fuse box, theres 2 fuel pump icons in there, a red fuse which is fine, and a large fuel icon for the fuel pump relay which mine is missing? Should it have a relay there? Its supposed to be bottom row third along from the left, just a space. Or is this for another model p38

Ok ive put a relay in relay space for the fuel pump and hey presto its got going, had it idling for 20 mins and it hasnt cut out will drive it round tonight to see how it behaves .

Did your window trick, windows set now theyve stopped bleeping .

Next on the list...... ABS fault every time i set off. Will check fuses as some muppet might have messed these up if non blown missing then get a fault code read i supose.


Just thought id test low gear button, supprise supprise it doesnt work, just flashes for afew seconds then the message select neutural. Would i be right in thinking the plan of action for this faut is replace ratio control motor and if no change replace transfer ECU?


God ive picked my self a good car havnt i, more work than i bargained for.

bond23 said:

Ok ive put a relay in relay space for the fuel pump and hey presto its got going, had it idling for 20 mins and it hasnt cut out will drive it round tonight to see how it behaves .

Did your window trick, windows set now theyve stopped bleeping .

Next on the list...... ABS fault every time i set off. Will check fuses as some muppet might have messed these up if non blown missing then get a fault code read i supose.


Just thought id test low gear button, supprise supprise it doesnt work, just flashes for afew seconds then the message select neutural. Would i be right in thinking the plan of action for this faut is replace ratio control motor and if no change replace transfer ECU?


God ive picked my self a good car havnt i, more work than i bargained for.

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Interesting about the fuel relay, wonder why that was missing, might be a good idea to keep an ear out to check the pump doesn't continue running after you stop the engine or something.

The reason for cutting out is most likely because the pump wasn't pushing fuel through and just the FIP was pulling the fuel through from the tank, with the valve also on the pipe it wont really of helped things!

ABS fault everytime you set off?? Are you getting ABS FAULT flashing up on the message centre when you pull away then ORRRRR when you start are you getting the ABS light stay on until you travel above 5mph?? If its the latter then this is normal and is part of the ABS ECU's self checking procedure.

To put the P38 in low range, for the manual, make sure its in neutral, fully press the clutch all the way down and then press the low range cog button and keep holding the clutch down until its made its range change. If this is what you did then you may have a dead motor or seized one at the least. Pretty easy to have it off and see what happens when you apply direct voltage to it, you could always have a go at freeing it up with some WD40 or whatever and then refit it and see what happens. Careful about trying to put it in low too many times though if it is seized as you could damage the ECU.


Keep us updated with your efforts, why not post some pics of it up as well

-Wills

I read somewhere in the service history a recipt from landrover had written on it "i hope you find your fuel problem soon" that was a year ago perhaps theyve been living with it for that long. My other theory perhaps someone at the auction did it on purpose to put all the other bidders off. Will keep a listen out for the pump.

Its all made a BIG difference though, it now starts first turn of the key whether its hot or cold, like a new car

Yeah as soon as i pull away afew feet it flashes up on the dash ABS fault anything i can do before having to pay to plug it into a computer?

Its a manual, yeah tried pressing with clutch down, gear into neautral and shook the gear stick around afew times and still nothing. Ill try that then take it off and see what it does.

You guys are bloody good at these things some very helpful information here. cheers for all the help so far its much appreciated.

Yeah ill up some pictures very soon, a good polish and clean first is next on my growing list

As Justin Lee Colins would say - good times! Glad things are now becoming better for you!

The ABS fault problem will most likely be one of the ABS sensors has gone duff or has come unseated. Rather than me type it all out, have a look at abs to see a nice pic to help you out plus the info I would try giving them all a tap back in before anything else though.

-Wills

Sounds like you are making good progress Agree with the above re ABS sensors, most likely one has become dislodged. Again, the low range servo is probably struggling against a seized mechinism. get it stripped down and have a play with some WD and a good wiggle.

Couldnt get the hi/low motor to work, ordered a known working used one, was £20 from a range rover specialist breaker will stick that on when it arrives.

After driving round for a day the car developed a horrible very loud metalic noise like a bag of spanners shaking around when driving slow gear coming from the gearbox, i though the worst a new gearbox, looked underneath and couldnt see anything. I then got it over a friends pit and drove it backwards and forwards, we noticed it was coming from the rear of the propshaft, the bolts had worked loose allowing the shaft to move backwards and forwards. 5 mind later new bolts tightend up noise gone that was a relief!

Afew hours later i get a loud rattling scratching noise coming from centre console area, i ripped half the dash and seat out trying to find the noise, lastly i looked underneath the car and some wiring had worked lose and was hanging down on to the prop shaft, cable tied up noise gone. phew again lol.

Im slowly getting there, going to sort the ABS out this week. Another thing ive got occasionaly when i turn the ignition on i get Alternator fault, ive monitored the voltage with the engine running at idle and im geting between 13.6 to 13.9 of voltage. Would you say the alternator is starting to wear out or just a random message.

hi all, still struggling with the hi low mode, ive put on a new hi low motor still says select neutural, i replaced the ECU with another known working one and it still says select neutural.

All fuses checked. Any ideas on what it could be now? im lost.


Had the abs fault codes read first was a brake switch changed that still came on now its front sensor airgap, will give it a clean up and push back.

Needed new brake pipes all over too, just in the process of fitting new pipes.

thanks