P38 DSE glow plugs

Hi, just replaced glow plugs following poor starting and irratic idle.

Also replaced inlet manifold gaskets and replaced leak off pipes.

Usually I give two heats before starting and I get gray smoke out of exhaust and lumpy idle.

Replaced glow plugs and still the same.

Used multimeter to check voltage going to glow plugs and comes up at 10.5v, should this not be 12v?

Any other issues which may cause poor intimal starting and lumpy idle?

Many thanks in advance

P38dse1998 said:

Hi, just replaced glow plugs following poor starting and irratic idle.

Also replaced inlet manifold gaskets and replaced leak off pipes.

Usually I give two heats before starting and I get gray smoke out of exhaust and lumpy idle.

Replaced glow plugs and still the same.

Used multimeter to check voltage going to glow plugs and comes up at 10.5v, should this not be 12v?

Any other issues which may cause poor intimal starting and lumpy idle?

Many thanks in advance

Click to expand...

Check the contacts on the glow relay inside the ECU box behind battery. Make sure they are sound. Disconnect battery before playing in there. If the glows are working properly you should never need two applications. Duration of glows is subject to engine temp. Anything from four to nine seconds. How good is your battery?

wammers said:

Check the contacts on the glow relay inside the ECU box behind battery. Make sure they are sound. Disconnect battery before playing in there.

Click to expand...

Hi wammers, just had a look at relay and fuse ok. Did not check connections though. 10.5v is low right? I'm correct in thinking it should be 12v?

I will go and check the relay again.

10.5 is correct when plugs are in operation

tarphenry said:

10.5 is correct when plugs are in operation

Click to expand...

So then the correct power is going to glow plugs.

Reasons for lumpy idle following 2-3 heats of glow plugs then cranking? Also grey smoke for few seconds.

I had thought possibly injector seals. As when replacing the leak off pipes there was some diesel in where the injector sits and I seen bubbles, fine bubbles. Googled injectors and they have copper washer that seals. Advice either give them a Nik up to seal or replace the copper washers.

Car runs like a bag of spanners also until warmed up but even then it don't sound refined!

Any guidance is very welcomed and greatly appreciated.

wammers said:

Check the contacts on the glow relay inside the ECU box behind battery. Make sure they are sound. Disconnect battery before playing in there. If the glows are working properly you should never need two applications. Duration of glows is subject to engine temp. Anything from four to nine seconds. How good is your battery?

Click to expand...

Battery is good, I have two other brand new batteries I could use to eliminate battery.

Glow plug light stays on for say 6s, reducing slightly each time.

Another point to look at is temp sensor for ECU?

Cold start is fitted also.

Blanked of egr valve also

I hope the timing is ok and also the chain hasn't stretched which I believe can cause poor starting.

Old Glow plugs were eaten away and black sooted.

P38dse1998 said:

Battery is good, I have two other brand new batteries I could use to eliminate battery.

Glow plug light stays on for say 6s, reducing slightly each time.

Another point to look at is temp sensor for ECU?

Cold start is fitted also.

Blanked of egr valve also

I hope the timing is ok and also the chain hasn't stretched which I believe can cause poor starting.

Click to expand...

The chains will have stretched put money on it. If you had Nanocom you could check modulation. But white smoke and lumpy tick over until warm is classic of inefficient glow plugs.

wammers said:

The chains will have stretched put money on it. If you had Nanocom you could check modulation. But white smoke and lumpy tick over until warm is classic of inefficient glow plugs.

Click to expand...

Is white smoke not oil burning?

Might be worth checking the MAP pipe is connected and the intercooler is clear and all hoses clamped tightly.

Grrrrrr said:

Is white smoke not oil burning?

Might be worth checking the MAP pipe is connected and the intercooler is clear and all hoses clamped tightly.

Click to expand...

I have had a boost leak somewhere that I cannot find on my own. Seems to only happen when engine under load.

Map sensor hose is seated correctly, I did replace the turbo a wee while ago and the boost leak has been there ever since. Recently found my egr pipe had a crack init so I blocked exhaust manifold end with a penny. Thinking that's where the boost leak was coming from but still I hear boost.

Fyi car also seems to have plenty power first thing then gets bogged down, sat in car just now engine tickover is good. Started fine after one heat but still rough idle, few minutes, a little drive and engine sounds healthy.

I've done some amount of work on this car and it seems I'm making more work.

I will recheck everything, I have been meaning to check intercooler and clean out for a while.
Also fuel filter was changed 6months ago, used map sensor also replaced. New glow plugs, Leak off pipes replaced. Removed power box. DIY Chipped ECU. Replaced belt pulleys. Replaced all brakes, new brake pipes. Gearbox oil/filter replaced. Engine oil/filter replaced. New maf. Diy Rebuilt eas, brake booster. New turbo, new gaskets exhaust manifold, intake manifold.

I still have half shaft seals to do. Do all the diffs oil. Transfer box oil etc etc.


Never ending.

Grrrrrr said:

Is white smoke not oil burning?

Might be worth checking the MAP pipe is connected and the intercooler is clear and all hoses clamped tightly.

Click to expand...

Nope cool burning diesel. Oil smoke is blue.

Also noticed that oil is coming out of rocker cover into intake via breather pipe on left front top of engine. Which I assume goes in to inlet manifold.

P38dse1998 said:

Hi, just replaced glow plugs following poor starting and irratic idle.

Also replaced inlet manifold gaskets and replaced leak off pipes.

Usually I give two heats before starting and I get gray smoke out of exhaust and lumpy idle.

Replaced glow plugs and still the same.

Used multimeter to check voltage going to glow plugs and comes up at 10.5v, should this not be 12v?

Any other issues which may cause poor intimal starting and lumpy idle?

Many thanks in advance

Click to expand...

10.5 volts is about normal, the glow plugs are not 12 volt, or should not be. The hight current draw causes a significant volt drop in the wires to the glow plugs.

Datatek said:

10.5 volts is about normal, the glow plugs are not 12 volt, or should not be. The hight current draw causes a significant volt drop in the wires to the glow plugs.

Click to expand...

So safe to say glow plugs are good. So problem must lay elsewhere

Grrrrrr said:

Is white smoke not oil burning?

Might be worth checking the MAP pipe is connected and the intercooler is clear and all hoses clamped tightly.

Click to expand...

MAP pipe makes bugger all difference to starting, at least it doesn't on mine. My project P38 had the spigot broken off the map sensor and ran fine. The pipe had perished and dropped on my daily runner, possible some time ago, again it started and ran fine.

P38dse1998 said:

So safe to say glow plugs are good. So problem must lay elsewhere

Click to expand...

Only safe to say the glow plugs are good if the are the right ones with the correct voltage rating.

P38dse1998 said:

I have had a boost leak somewhere that I cannot find on my own. Seems to only happen when engine under load.

Map sensor hose is seated correctly, I did replace the turbo a wee while ago and the boost leak has been there ever since. Recently found my egr pipe had a crack init so I blocked exhaust manifold end with a penny. Thinking that's where the boost leak was coming from but still I hear boost.

Fyi car also seems to have plenty power first thing then gets bogged down, sat in car just now engine tickover is good. Started fine after one heat but still rough idle, few minutes, a little drive and engine sounds healthy.

I've done some amount of work on this car and it seems I'm making more work.

I will recheck everything, I have been meaning to check intercooler and clean out for a while.
Also fuel filter was changed 6months ago, used map sensor also replaced. New glow plugs, Leak off pipes replaced. Removed power box. DIY Chipped ECU. Replaced belt pulleys. Replaced all brakes, new brake pipes. Gearbox oil/filter replaced. Engine oil/filter replaced. New maf. Diy Rebuilt eas, brake booster. New turbo, new gaskets exhaust manifold, intake manifold.

I still have half shaft seals to do. Do all the diffs oil. Transfer box oil etc etc.


Never ending.

Click to expand...

DIY chipped ECU?

Datatek said:

Only safe to say the glow plugs are good if the are the right ones with the correct voltage rating.

Click to expand...

These are the glow plugs I purchased
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/300819945449

Also just checked the clear fuel pipe and I see bubbles..........checked leak off pipes again and injector 2 and 3 have wet leak off pipes. Having a nightmare with the leak off pipes as they seem to be leaking even though they are brand new hose.

Datatek said:

DIY chipped ECU?

Click to expand...

Yes when I bought the car, someone had fitted a power box and later I found out the ECU had been chpped also. Poor job was done as the old chip had been cut off leaving the contacts in place and the new chip soldered to the contacts damaging the chip.

So I removed the powerbox and removed the chip along with old contacts, purchased a chip from guy in Poland and soldered it in to place myself. Without burning the chip.

P38dse1998 said:

These are the glow plugs I purchased
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/300819945449

Also just checked the clear fuel pipe and I see bubbles..........checked leak off pipes again and injector 2 and 3 have wet leak off pipes. Having a nightmare with the leak off pipes as they seem to be leaking even though they are brand new hose.

Click to expand...

Unbranded glowplugs often disappoint. Beru or NGK from an over the counter trade supplier or you may be buying crap.
If you have the correct pipe the leak off should be no problem unless the return from the last injector is blocked. The correct pipe is quite hard to get over the injector pipes.