P38 Diesel Timing

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kapilamuni

Active Member
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550
Hi Guys,
Since I can't drive the car due to ABS pressure vale failure. Till I get it, decided to look at the timing chains. Chains were renewed in December 2016 (about 10K Kms ago) but apparently I have missed a tooth and the static timing cannot set as for the standard setting.
Set the engine TDC and inserted the timing pin into flywheel.
Timing (1).jpeg

Before going any further just checked the valve timing with the tool.
Timing (2).jpeg

The gap seen should be zero but I get about 14 mm :confused::confused::confused:. Even for a engine with more than 20K miles the gap recommended is 4.6 mm. Wonder I should continue to look at the inj. timing without setting valve timing right.
Your views please.
 
My advice buddy would be to check the whole chain timing, if your cam is out then maybe you are indeed a tooth or so out out??
I take it your flywheel is set, if I've read that correct?.
If your flywheel is in position then the rest should follow suit. If it doesn't then you are out of sync.
 
I've no good reason to comment as I've never worked on one of these, but I seem to recall Wammers writing about how it's possible to mistake the crank alignment notch for another notch close by.

If you are in the correct notch on the flywheel then you have issues.

To proceed with cam alignment out is madness.

All I can say is get the timing cover off to get the full picture.

I think we ALL know who can help you get this right, but you are going to need to do exactly as instructed by him to have any chance of a successful outcome, if he has the energy or will to oblige.
 
Last edited:
kapilamuni said:
Hi Guys,
Since I can't drive the car due to ABS pressure vale failure. Till I get it, decided to look at the timing chains. Chains were renewed in December 2016 (about 10K Kms ago) but apparently I have missed a tooth and the static timing cannot set as for the standard setting.
Set the engine TDC and inserted the timing pin into flywheel.
View attachment 139638
Before going any further just checked the valve timing with the tool.
View attachment 139639
The gap seen should be zero but I get about 14 mm :confused::confused::confused:. Even for a engine with more than 20K miles the gap recommended is 4.6 mm. Wonder I should continue to look at the inj. timing without setting valve timing right.
Your views please.
Click to expand...
If the flywheel is locked in the correct position then you are correct, the gap should be set with a feeler gauge of 4.61mm or 0.18 in under the inlet side of the locking tool. If the bottom chain has been fitted correctly then all you have to do is slacked the cam sprocket bolt and turn the cam until this is achieved.Retighten the bolt, remove the flywheel locking pin and turn the engine over for at least two revolutions by hand to make sure nothing is amiss, i.e. valves are going to come in contact with pistons. Turn the engine over until the cam lobes on number one cylinder are level (as per Rave) and you should be able to refit the flywheel locking pin. If you can then the valve timing is correct.
 
This has been explained by me several times, but here we go again, (with new chains there should be NO gap on tool). Ensure engine is locked at TDC number one firing before you start strip and DO NOT remove pin again until pump/crank marks are correctly aligned and cam is timed. You need to strip timing cover off and check that LOCKED at TDC number one firing, (so that the engine CANNOT be turned in either direction), the timing marks on crank sprocket and pump sprocket are twelve raised links apart and the pump Woodruff key is engaged in the pump sprocket and secure. As illustrated in RAVE. Or as illustrated in Daryls photo with the links highlighted with white paint. Pump cam lift timing does not matter at this point. Then WITHOUT removing locking pin you then need to set valve timing with number one cam lobes flat across top and NO gap to head on tool., RAVE is pretty easy to follow. If the engine is indeed locked at TDC number one firing i suggest you timed the cam hooked on the timing pip 20 degrees ATDC. Once the lock pin is engaged it must NOT be removed and the engine turned until crank and pump marks are aligned and cam is timed. Only then can the pin be removed to carry out pump cam lift timing as described in RAVE. Setting cam lift at .95 mm at TDC number one firing. You MUST ensure that lock pin is correctly engaged at ALL times and NOT hooked on one of the two timing pips 40 degree BTDC or 20 degrees ATDC. Hopefully you will have learned something from this episode. Good luck.
 
Last edited:
wammers said:
This has been explained by me several times, but here we go again, (with new chains there should be NO gap on tool). Ensure engine is locked at TDC number one firing before you start strip and DO NOT remove pin again until pump/crank marks are correctly aligned and cam is timed. You need to strip timing cover off and check that LOCKED at TDC number one firing, (so that the engine CANNOT be turned in either direction), the timing marks on crank sprocket and pump sprocket are twelve raised links apart and the pump Woodruff key is engaged in the pump sprocket and secure. As illustrated in RAVE. Or as illustrated in Daryls photo with the links highlighted with white paint. Pump cam lift timing does not matter at this point. Then WITHOUT removing locking pin you then need to set valve timing with number one cam lobes flat across top and NO gap to head on tool., RAVE is pretty easy to follow. If the engine is indeed locked at TDC number one firing i suggest you timed the cam hooked on the timing pip 20 degrees ATDC. Once the lock pin is engaged it must NOT be removed and the engine turned until crank and pump marks are aligned and cam is timed. Only then can the pin be removed to carry out pump cam lift timing as described in RAVE. Setting cam lift at .95 mm BTDC number one firing. You MUST ensure that lock pin is correctly engaged at ALL times and NOT hooked on one of the two timing pips 40 degree BTDC or 20 degrees ATDC. Hopefully you will have learned something from this episode. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Morning Tony.the saga continues. :D
 
wammers said:
This has been explained by me several times, but here we go again, (with new chains there should be NO gap on tool). Ensure engine is locked at TDC number one firing before you start strip and DO NOT remove pin again until pump/crank marks are correctly aligned and cam is timed. You need to strip timing cover off and check that LOCKED at TDC number one firing, (so that the engine CANNOT be turned in either direction), the timing marks on crank sprocket and pump sprocket are twelve raised links apart and the pump Woodruff key is engaged in the pump sprocket and secure. As illustrated in RAVE. Or as illustrated in Daryls photo with the links highlighted with white paint. Pump cam lift timing does not matter at this point. Then WITHOUT removing locking pin you then need to set valve timing with number one cam lobes flat across top and NO gap to head on tool., RAVE is pretty easy to follow. If the engine is indeed locked at TDC number one firing i suggest you timed the cam hooked on the timing pip 20 degrees ATDC. Once the lock pin is engaged it must NOT be removed and the engine turned until crank and pump marks are aligned and cam is timed. Only then can the pin be removed to carry out pump cam lift timing as described in RAVE. Setting cam lift at .95 mm at TDC number one firing. You MUST ensure that lock pin is correctly engaged at ALL times and NOT hooked on one of the two timing pips 40 degree BTDC or 20 degrees ATDC. Hopefully you will have learned something from this episode. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Could he be 180 degrees out somewhere?
 
If the flywheel is locked in the correct position and he can get 14 mm under the cam locking tool then all he has to do is loosen the sprocket bolt and turn the cam until the gap on the inlet side is as per rave.
 
tomcat59alan said:
If the flywheel is locked in the correct position and he can get 14 mm under the cam locking tool then all he has to do is loosen the sprocket bolt and turn the cam until the gap on the inlet side is as per rave.
Click to expand...

That would not correct his pump timing. With it locked at TDC hopefully he cannot get more than .75 mm lift on cam with pump fully towards engine. He should be able to get a few mm. Let us wait and see what he finds on strip down.
 
wammers said:
That would not correct his pump timing. With it locked at TDC hopefully he cannot get more than .75 mm lift on cam with pump fully towards engine. He should be able to get a few mm. Let us wait and see what he finds on strip down.
Click to expand...
wammers said:
That would not correct his pump timing. With it locked at TDC hopefully he cannot get more than .75 mm lift on cam with pump fully towards engine. He should be able to get a few mm. Let us wait and see what he finds on strip down.
Click to expand...
I came in halfway Tony, thought he trying to sort the valve timing.
 
I too thought about correcting the cam phasing via taper pulley, but then got scared not knowing anything about the pump set up.

Broth, my fave, wi a side o popcorn! :D
 
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