P38 - air to coils?

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Davie F said:
Be serious wammers, debate is coils or air and some of us think that coils are better and more reliable, I certainly would not change back. As I said before go and try one on coils before changeing and see what you think. Have not seen any RS on air yet can't think of a ford with EAS can you.
Davie
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It was not a comparison of the suspension as you well know, but of the vehicle in general. The P38 on coils being the model T. The EAS equipped P38 being the RS turbo by comparison. A quantum leap better in every aspect. I believe some Iron age folk thought the Bronze tools far better, and some Bronze age people thought the old stone tools were far superior. You are still using the pointed stick no doubt.:):)
 
You will always get those that take the argument too far, it's as simple as this. In MY opinion the range rover is a better motor on coils period, still recommend you go and try one even if you pretend to be a buyer.
Davie
 
fentigerover said:
I DON'T KNOW, THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING ANYONE WHO HAS ACTUALLY DONE IT FOR THEIR VIEWS!!!!!!!!

I know the difference between a Mercedes 6.3 AMG on air and a non-AMG Mercedes 6.3 on coils arguably, the coil ride is better overall, but the AMG wins out in other ways.
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Well you have had the feedback it's now for you to take the choice. If you are happy that a set of coils will out perform air suspension in every aspect and in every possible load/speed configuration senario then fit them. But don't be surprised if you get into trouble with the high C of G in an hard evasive action. A P38 on coils is a totally different handling prospect at speed than a Merc 6.3. One on air is more stabil of that there is no question.
 
Davie F said:
debate is coils or air and some of us think that coils are better and more reliable, I certainly would not change back. As I said before go and try one on coils before changeing and see what you think. Have not seen any RS on air yet can't think of a ford with EAS can you.
Davie
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i have said it already. i own 2 P38'S. ONE ON AIR THE OTHER ON COILS. the one on coils is currently in the garage getting put back on air. the ride is terrible. i live in the county and when driving and driving on main roads that are a little bumpy you get a sort of accoridian effect that the springs keep reverbing and the ride is shocking. there is honestly no way too compare. EAS is over rated that its difficult to fix. its cheap if you have the time, free Easunlock and mavbe a few kits from time to time that cost under £20. i have no reason to lie or create friction but its the truth.

Davie F said:
You will always get those that take the argument too far, it's as simple as this. In MY opinion the range rover is a better motor on coils period, still recommend you go and try one even if you pretend to be a buyer.
Davie
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all i can think is that you have no spine or your made of concrete if you think its better on coils. its insane!
 
rewmer said:
Indeed it is a common problem. I am slowly working my way through the whole front end trying to cure mine. It would seem that every part has to be spot on. Everytime I change a part it gets a little better but it is still there. Don't overlook getting the steering box centred. I've read a few posts on people giving the tracking a little more toe in which has helped.
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Sounds like E46 BMW's and Honda S2000's - both are a nightmare unless every component in the chain is working tip top! Any one single fault ruins everything!!
 
Accordian effect, must be a pretty shoddy conversion or the coils are shagged, if we follow that argument then what about Pajero's/shoguns, landcruisers and all the rest that used or uses coils, i live in the North East of Scotland where currently there are probably more potholes than road and don't have a problem, matter of fact am pretty happy with my ride, every other motor I have had has had coils so it must be a pretty crap system. I can see the argument that it was designed for EAS but then not everything that has been designed for a task makes it right, as I say I am happy with mine so for me thats all that counts.
Davie
 
Davie F said:
Accordian effect, must be a pretty shoddy conversion or the coils are shagged, if we follow that argument then what about Pajero's/shoguns, landcruisers and all the rest that used or uses coils, i live in the North East of Scotland where currently there are probably more potholes than road and don't have a problem, matter of fact am pretty happy with my ride, every other motor I have had has had coils so it must be a pretty crap system. I can see the argument that it was designed for EAS but then not everything that has been designed for a task makes it right, as I say I am happy with mine so for me thats all that counts.
Davie
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It's far more likely to be right if it was designed for a specific set of coils in the first place though. Sounds like you've been lucky with your coil conversion but others haven't. Since the P38 was never designed for coils there will be no standard set to compare it with and it seems that every tom dick and harry can just import a random collection of bent wire from China and call them 'suitable for a P38'.

I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole on a P38. Dangerous.

I don't understand why one wouldn't just buy something else if you don't like air, rather than a car specifically designed for air and then nobble it.
 
Jaguar make cars that ride very well on coils, it's down to the interaction between the coils and the shocks. If the shocks are too stiff on compression the ride will be knobbly even if the coils are right. Exactly the same applies to EAS, if the ride is bad it's most likely to be the shocks in my opinion. The ride on my P38 on air is magic carpet quality, I forget just how good it is until I get into my Transit or even the MR2, no comparison on bumpy French back roads. No doubt the P38 could also be made to ride well on coils, but the amount of trial and error needed to get a good ride handling combo must be enormous.
 
Davie F said:
Accordian effect, must be a pretty shoddy conversion or the coils are shagged,
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there Britpart and there fitted about 1 year ago and as i said if there "shagged" in that time at £600+ price tag thats far more expencive than any EAS system

Davie F said:
if we follow that argument then what about Pajero's/shoguns, landcruisers and all the rest that used or uses coils,
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Pajero's/shoguns and landcruisers were designed for coils. if you took them out nad stuck in some airbags how do you think they would handle???

Davie F said:
i live in the North East of Scotland where currently there are probably more potholes than road and don't have a problem, matter of fact am pretty happy with my ride, every other motor I have had has had coils so it must be a pretty crap system. I can see the argument that it was designed for EAS but then not everything that has been designed for a task makes it right
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fact is EAS is a superior product over coils and by saying "every other motor I have had has had coils so it must be a pretty crap system" is a cop out. its like saying my car without seatbelts is safer than my car with seatbelts!!

kooky_guy said:
It's far more likely to be right if it was designed for a specific set of coils in the first place though.
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true

kooky_guy said:
Since the P38 was never designed for coils there will be no standard set to compare it with and it seems that every tom dick and harry can just import a random collection of bent wire from China and call them 'suitable for a P38'.
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or brit part for that matter!! :p

kooky_guy said:
I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole on a P38. Dangerous.
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so true. unless you've driven with them people wont understand

kooky_guy said:
I don't understand why one wouldn't just buy something else if you don't like air, rather than a car specifically designed for air and then nobble it.
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fair point

Datatek said:
Jaguar make cars that ride very well on coils, it's down to the interaction between the coils and the shocks. If the shocks are too stiff on compression the ride will be knobbly even if the coils are right. Exactly the same applies to EAS, if the ride is bad it's most likely to be the shocks in my opinion. The ride on my P38 on air is magic carpet quality, I forget just how good it is until I get into my Transit or even the MR2, no comparison on bumpy French back roads. No doubt the P38 could also be made to ride well on coils, but the amount of trial and error needed to get a good ride handling combo must be enormous.
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exactly. the point is cars that are designed to take coils or air are better to stick to the original. plain and simple....!
 
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P38_Ireland said:
not really i was done by the previous owner about 1 year ago, if it is the case it will mean i new set of coils would be knackered in 1 year!! not even a bad EAS system will be dertroyed in that time!
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Sorry, I wasn't suggesting your coil conversion was knackered, more the quality of it in the first place.

For instance, Britpart don't have the best reputation for quality, people tend to buy their products based on price. I doubt they manufacture in house, so their sources would be pretty variable and thus the kit on your car fitted by the previous owner could be any old mix of springs and dampers, causing you problems.

It's easy to screw the combination up, even the big manufactures do it! My BMW 330Ci M-Sport, for instance, handles beautifully on smooth roads but on rough roads it becomes clear there is not enough damping as standard, and to counter that they have used overly stiff springs, leading to a crashy ride. This is supported by the fact that many owners fit Eibach springs and dampers - it rides 10mm lower, yet the spring/damper combo gives a better ride on rough/rutted roads with more progressive damping when 'pushing on' on smooth, flowing roads.

Back to the RR's, if you got a coil conversion from a suspension specialist - e.g. Koni - who do nothing but suspension, I bet you would find it a great choice and as good, if not better, than the EAS.

The argument that fitting after market coil kits is flawed - that would be like saying a normally coil sprung car should not be fitted with coilovers to improve handling, when everyone knows that they give vastly improved handling on track - even though the car was never designed to be fitted with coilovers.

Davie F - what coil kit is on your car, out of interest?
 
MikeV8SE said:
The argument that fitting after market coil kits is flawed - that would be like saying a normally coil sprung car should not be fitted with coilovers to improve handling, when everyone knows that they give vastly improved handling on track - even though the car was never designed to be fitted with coilovers.

Davie F - what coil kit is on your car, out of interest?
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Dumb question #5634129851 - What's a coilover?
 
Sorry but you all miss the point entirely. In the case of the P38 EAS has built in safety features relivent to a vehicle that has a high centre of gravity. Coil springs in general set a higher ride height than the standard EAS ride height, therefore the centre of gravity is lifted and the vehicle becomes less stabil. More likely to roll. Unless you fitted coil springs that set the motorway ride height that EAS sets automatically over 50 mph a coil sprung P38 is not going to be as safe on the road as the EAS equipped version. If that was done the springs would need to be stiffer and the ride would suffer greatly. EAS is designed to give a stabil level and predictable platform across the entire load/speed range. Coils cannot hope to do that.
 
wammers said:
Sorry but you all miss the point entirely. In the case of the P38 EAS has built in safety features relivent to a vehicle that has a high centre of gravity. Coil springs in general set a higher ride height than the standard EAS ride height, therefore the centre of gravity is lifted and the vehicle becomes less stabil. More likely to roll. Unless you fitted coil springs that set the motorway ride height that EAS sets automatically over 50 mph a coil sprung P38 is not going to be as safe on the road as the EAS equipped version. If that was done the springs would need to be stiffer and the ride would suffer greatly. EAS is designed to give a stabil level and predictable platform across the entire load/speed range. Coils cannot hope to do that.
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I agree to an extent, but then plenty of 4x4's drive perfectly well on coil springs at motorway speeds - you just have to use the right ones.

Which comes back to my point - if you get something like the Britpart kit, who I imagine (but don't know!) use a number of suppliers, then I would personally not be too happy with the setup - more luck than judgement if you get a good setup.

However, if someone like Koni, Eibach, Bilstein, etc produce a kit for this car, and don't have a 'base' system to start with, then they MUST have done a lot of R&D to produce a suitable kit that is safe - and in that situation I would suggest that would be a viable and safe alternative to EAS.
 
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