P38 4.0 auto won't crank with good battery...

Ok - 6 month old 1000cca battery & chinese starter motor. Usually left on CTEK battery conditioner as only get used at weekends and in snow....

Always fires great when coming off charge.
Alt is charging ok - 13.6v at battery.
It now randomly refuses to turn - solenoid clicks and voltage pulled WAY down - warning lights error messages the lot...so cables are ok?

Can't be started unless jumped or recharged - but the recharge only takes 60mins.....

I've got a rocker oil leak (on the list) that is going to the starter motor - is the motor duff??

cheers,

Greg

check your earths there is one on the rear of the engine at the back of the head left hand side also consider a decent stater motor, chinease on a p38 and you expect it to last

biketeacherdave said:

check your earths there is one on the rear of the engine at the back of the head left hand side also consider a decent stater motor, chinease on a p38 and you expect it to last

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Ha - I've got a re-con bosch waiting to go on once i've fixed the leak

I'd ruled out connections as it's happily pulling down the battery voltage - but stand ready to be corrected...

Greg

these things dont work with parts from the factory hows it ever gonna work with a chinease one

Chinease,
Is that the latest innovation for the slack of jaw, some sort of sling for your jowls?

Greg Sharman said:

Alt is charging ok - 13.6v at battery.

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13.6V is low even for a diesel. Original diesels will be 13.8V set point but can be upgraded to charge calcium batteries properly. The 1000CCA battery almost certainly is calcium for that poke.

Petrol should be kicking out at least 14.2V with headlamps etc all on, preferable 14.5V. On RR.net there are a serious of electrical troublshooting tests. Work through them and failing that I would hazard a guess that the alternator is suspect.

Grrrrrr said:

13.6V is low even for a diesel. Original diesels will be 13.8V set point but can be upgraded to charge calcium batteries properly. The 1000CCA battery almost certainly is calcium for that poke.

Petrol should be kicking out at least 14.2V with headlamps etc all on, preferable 14.5V. On RR.net there are a serious of electrical troublshooting tests. Work through them and failing that I would hazard a guess that the alternator is suspect.

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Yeah - i guess I know 13.6v not 'great' but had put the no crank issue down to more than low recharge (battery is always 12v+) wash- it did it today after one 10 mile journey - no lights, occasional wash/wipers... that said will get alt sorted and take it off the list...

RR problem solving piece you pointed to here will take a look.

Greg

Greg Sharman said:

RR problem solving piece you pointed to here will take a look.

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That's the one!

What system? Gems or Bosch?
I would check as these don't really charge calcium batteries to well TBH. They need a smart system. Many companies will sell you a calcium as an upgrade but they need a slightly smarter charging system and many cars are just plain dumb!
I also recommend taking a battery cable straight from the alternator to the battery. One of the terrible three is dodgy I think. Alternator, starter motor, battery. Takes your pick.
Jb
Try the starter see if it's stcky by taking off, then putting +onto the big connection - on the body then 12 v to the small connection.
Take the alternator to be tested by someone.
I brought a Halfords battery that was a recommended upgrade took it back because it was knackered. The guy said why did you get this one? I took him to the flip chart and that was recommended. He immediately swapped it for the biggest normal battery that would fit!
Jb

johnnyb70 said:

What system? Gems or Bosch?
I would check as these don't really charge calcium batteries to well TBH. They need a smart system. Many companies will sell you a calcium as an upgrade but they need a slightly smarter charging system and many cars are just plain dumb!
I also recommend taking a battery cable straight from the alternator to the battery. One of the terrible three is dodgy I think. Alternator, starter motor, battery. Takes your pick.
Jb
Try the starter see if it's stcky by taking off, then putting +onto the big connection - on the body then 12 v to the small connection.
Take the alternator to be tested by someone.
I brought a Halfords battery that was a recommended upgrade took it back because it was knackered. The guy said why did you get this one? I took him to the flip chart and that was recommended. He immediately swapped it for the biggest normal battery that would fit!
Jb

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It's a GEMS - does that make any difference?

Greg Sharman said:

It's a GEMS - does that make any difference?

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Can do. I think there was some dodgy earth connection on the GEMS and on later models they fitted an extra earth strap, something like that.

The alternator is smaller on a gems. The cable from the alternator goes to the starter and then to the battery. Put a short cable straight to the battery. something is slightly dodgy in the terrible three. Test them or take a hunch and replace one at a time. Get the larger alternator though(120amp?) These alternators do go weak.
Jb

Thanks - ended up doing all three yesterday.... battery had gone south (6 month old 1000cca Hankook from Battery supermarket down to 350cca... ), added a direct feed in 35mm and changed the alternator to a 120amp.

Charging voltage at 14v now - not at the 14.1 suggested as minimum in the RR.net fault finding page but all that is left is the earth cable - which I will do!, that said it's not significantly better measured direct from the alternator...so accuracy of my multi meter may be coming in to play!

"Big up" to Kev @ ALM in Redditch for helping me out - making up the cables and trying new batteries into the box to get biggest in we could - and price of battery not to be sniffed at either.

Greg Sharman said:

. battery had gone south (6 month old 1000cca Hankook from Battery supermarket down to 350cca..

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Battery supermarket will replace it as has a 4 yr warranty on it just supply proof that its down to 350 cca

ovalandrover said:

Battery supermarket will replace it as has a 4 yr warranty on it just supply Thanksproof that its down to 350 cca

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Thanks - didn't have much confidence in this but will give it a go....
Greg

Good going there! At least the starters ok! I don't think the smaller gems alternator makes much difference when everything's new. Only when cold weather brings in heated seats screens etc and stuff is not 100% does it seem to matter. 150a Thor alternator anticipates the modern power hungry car generation. The extra wire to the battery is just an insurance policy and easy to do.

New word... Chinglish

ovalandrover said:

Battery supermarket will replace it as has a 4 yr warranty on it just supply proof that its down to 350 cca

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New battery received - no hassle at all, thanks again for the prod.