P38 2.5 DSE Non starter. 1999.. Plus No Reverse..

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Just dropped a cup full of oil out of box......very dark brown would be an optimists view of the colour, haha. Yes it stinks, but not much more so than any other old used oil. I wouldn’t describe it as a burnt smell, just awful.
Would that account for a total lack of drive in reverse?
But, yes agree a filter and flush is worth a shot, before splashing out on a new box.
 
BrenK said:
Just dropped a cup full of oil out of box......very dark brown would be an optimists view of the colour, haha. Yes it stinks, but not much more so than any other old used oil. I wouldn’t describe it as a burnt smell, just awful.
Would that account for a total lack of drive in reverse?
But, yes agree a filter and flush is worth a shot, before splashing out on a new box.
Click to expand...

Should be red. Flush cannot hurt at this stage.
 
I have had a stiff cable, sorted with lube squirted down the sleeve.

Cable adjustment can be fiddly to get it right, but it is all documented in RAVE.

Over time cables can stretch and also begin to become almost elastic in nature, so when adjusted correctly, even then due to elastic stretch will prevent correct actuation of the gearbox side lever and xyz switch.

If this is the case a new cable assembly is required.
 
Saint.V8 said:
I have had a stiff cable, sorted with lube squirted down the sleeve.

Cable adjustment can be fiddly to get it right, but it is all documented in RAVE.

Over time cables can stretch and also begin to become almost elastic in nature, so when adjusted correctly, even then due to elastic stretch will prevent correct actuation of the gearbox side lever and xyz switch.

If this is the case a new cable assembly is required.
Click to expand...

Fip seal kit didn't arrive today :(, so got under it and had a play with the xyz. Freed it all off, unclipped and adjusted cable, and had someone select all gears whilst i was watching it and moves freely and lever position corresponds with gear lights.
Tried it and had half hearted attempt to move when revers selected. Don't know if I imagined it, but put it into Low and am sure it tried a little harder to move. But the lightest incline and it stops dead.

Could poor or dirty contacts inside the xyz have any bearing on it?

Have ordered a filter and some ATF, but can't find the name of the gearbox additive that was recommended, know it was made by Lucas, but what is it called, please?

Thanks everyone for your much appreciated help so far.....updates will follow.
 
BrenK said:
Fip seal kit didn't arrive today :(, so got under it and had a play with the xyz. Freed it all off, unclipped and adjusted cable, and had someone select all gears whilst i was watching it and moves freely and lever position corresponds with gear lights.
Tried it and had half hearted attempt to move when revers selected. Don't know if I imagined it, but put it into Low and am sure it tried a little harder to move. But the lightest incline and it stops dead.

Could poor or dirty contacts inside the xyz have any bearing on it?

Have ordered a filter and some ATF, but can't find the name of the gearbox additive that was recommended, know it was made by Lucas, but what is it called, please?

Thanks everyone for your much appreciated help so far.....updates will follow.
Click to expand...
If there is a problem with the XYZ switch, it should show on diagnostics.
 
BrenK said:
Fip seal kit didn't arrive today :(, so got under it and had a play with the xyz. Freed it all off, unclipped and adjusted cable, and had someone select all gears whilst i was watching it and moves freely and lever position corresponds with gear lights.
Tried it and had half hearted attempt to move when revers selected. Don't know if I imagined it, but put it into Low and am sure it tried a little harder to move. But the lightest incline and it stops dead.

Could poor or dirty contacts inside the xyz have any bearing on it?

Have ordered a filter and some ATF, but can't find the name of the gearbox additive that was recommended, know it was made by Lucas, but what is it called, please?

Thanks everyone for your much appreciated help so far.....updates will follow.
Click to expand...

Lucas Transmission Fix.

Drop some fluid out and check the colour.
 
Grrrrrr said:
Lucas Transmission Fix.

Drop some fluid out and check the colour.
Click to expand...

Fluid is dark brown at best, probably close to black. Smells awful (not burnt, but makes you gag, haha)
Cheer for the Lucas info. Gonna give a flush and Lucas a go and see what happens.
Have read, do filter, fill it, run it for a while, drop oil again, run again, drop again and fill for third time. I assume you add Lucas to last fill not first? And assume run it just for a few minutes between fills / drains ? Or do you drive it a while? And let it cool before draining and refilling?
Cheers.
 
Best to drop it out warmed and fill it up cooled.

Drop the old stuff out and refill fresh. Give it 100 miles or such then dip a paper in the fill plug see what colour it is.
If it's still red then drop a little out and put the Lucas in. If it's brown again you may want to change again. You only drop the box but the black stuff will still be in the cooler rad / pipes and box ventricles.
 
You'll never get it all out first time and if it that colour it needs doing ASAP. I know nothing about the auto but I'm guessing burnt clutch is a possibility.

I'm sure there's a How To on changing the fluid and filter. Check the Technical Section or failing that RR.net.

On filling, follow the instructions in RAVE. It is something like fill then start engine and run through all the gears but cannot remember exactly.
 
How I do my autobox oil.
Warm it thoroughly, drop the sump plug and let it's contents drain. (The longer the better and it'll cool as well).
At this point I leave the filter, then refill until the oil starts to come back out, put the plug back in. Not tight!
Start up, foot on the brake and carefully go through all the lever positions and back through them all to park. Leave it running, go back underneath and remove the level plug and top up as necessary until it drips out again.
The second time and as said, after a week drop the oil again and this time do the filter and repeat.
It may not be everybody's routine and you can just do the filter and the first sump full of oil that comes out. ;)
Get your bus as level as possible beforehand.
 
Last edited:
Mark Piercy said:
How I do my autobox oil.
Warm it thoroughly, drop the sump plug and let it's contents drain. (The longer the better and it'll cool as well).
At this point I leave the filter, then refill until the oil starts to come back out, put the plug back in. Not tight!
Start up, foot on the brake and carefully go through all the lever positions and back through them all to park. Leave it running, go back underneath and remove the level plug and top up as necessary until it drips out again.
The second time and as said, after a week drop the oil again and this time do the filter and repeat.
It may not be everybody's routine and you can just do the filter and the first sump full of oil that comes out. ;)
Get your bus as level as possible beforehand.
Click to expand...

Thanks all.
stuff ordered.....know what I'm doing easter weekend now......
 
This came out og my HP24 ;)
V7BsRdrl.jpg


For a good indication on color smear some on a clean piece of paper, in this case it looked Black but infact...

Twas brown, just a tad dirty ;)

qGHYdjpl.jpg



I've pulled a 4hp22 apart that had a no Reverse Complaint and slipping in Drive Turned out the pressure plate on the B clutch assembly had broken = No reverse..

The Clutches were also completely knackered. ;)

A possibility in your case.
 
Last edited:
Henry_b said:
This came out og my HP24 ;)
V7BsRdrl.jpg


For a good indication on color smear some on a clean piece of paper, in this case it looked Black but infact...

Twas brown, just a tad dirty ;)

qGHYdjpl.jpg



I've pulled a 4hp22 apart that had a no Reverse Complaint and slipping in Drive Turned out the pressure plate on the B clutch assembly had broken = No reverse..

The Clutches were also completely knackered. ;)
Click to expand...

I'll try the paper test in a minute. thanks.
I suspect that will be the case on this one, but just feel for the sake of a few quids worth of oil, I'll give it a go with a flush first and keep my fingrs crossed...
but the fact I've already started looking for another box speaks volumes, haha.
Thanks.
 
Quick update.
Fip Diesel leak now sorted. Changed seals and all good. One thing ticked off very long list.

Did oil test on white paper.......and its very very dark brown, so more than just a little dirty, sadly.
The more I think about it, more I research it, more advice on here, and having spoken to two independent gear box specialists, and a really helpful local independent LR parts and servicing place, (who all said box is knackered) the more I think I could be wasting my time trying a flush and filter change. Don't want to waist money doing it if not going to achieve anything.

Starting to think would be better off getting a box from a known donor vehicle, fit that, then flush and fit new filter and fill with new oil (as I've already ordered oil and filter) and that way hit it once and for all?

Any comments welcome, and if any one knows the whereabouts of a good used box, please let me know. Don't think I can stretch to an Ashcroft one at the minute, but would this be another false economy if I don't use one of theirs?

Lastly, whilst I do all my own repairs normally, I don't have a garage or access to a lift or pit. Think trying to replace it laying on my back under the car could be making things extremely difficult for my self? So is any one local ish to Northamptonshire that has better facilities and would be able to help remove and refit box? Paid of course.

Cheers,
 
BrenK said:
Quick update.
Fip Diesel leak now sorted. Changed seals and all good. One thing ticked off very long list.

Did oil test on white paper.......and its very very dark brown, so more than just a little dirty, sadly.
The more I think about it, more I research it, more advice on here, and having spoken to two independent gear box specialists, and a really helpful local independent LR parts and servicing place, (who all said box is knackered) the more I think I could be wasting my time trying a flush and filter change. Don't want to waist money doing it if not going to achieve anything.

Starting to think would be better off getting a box from a known donor vehicle, fit that, then flush and fit new filter and fill with new oil (as I've already ordered oil and filter) and that way hit it once and for all?

Any comments welcome, and if any one knows the whereabouts of a good used box, please let me know. Don't think I can stretch to an Ashcroft one at the minute, but would this be another false economy if I don't use one of theirs?

Lastly, whilst I do all my own repairs normally, I don't have a garage or access to a lift or pit. Think trying to replace it laying on my back under the car could be making things extremely difficult for my self? So is any one local ish to Northamptonshire that has better facilities and would be able to help remove and refit box? Paid of course.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Prolly better to have your current one rebuilt, you'll be pulling it out so why not? ;)

The HP22 isn't the strongest box in the grand scheme of things and a Used donor might not be far behind your current one.. ;)
 
Henry_b said:
Prolly better to have your current one rebuilt, you'll be pulling it out so why not? ;)

The HP22 isn't the strongest box in the grand scheme of things and a Used donor might not be far behind your current one.. ;)
Click to expand...

What sort of costs would be invloved? As it's not something I'd be able / confident to do my self.
Cheers,
 
BrenK said:
What sort of costs would be invloved? As it's not something I'd be able / confident to do my self.
Cheers,
Click to expand...
No idea on cost unfortunately, but since you'd be supplying the box for rebuild i'd say it would be cheaper "just" than having an off the shelf unit supplied and delivered.

Ashcroft and Aztek engineering and others, there are a fare few that do Gearbox rebuilds, those two i know off of the top of me Cranium.. ;)
 
How much is it for a 20 litre drum of ATF d3 off the Smith & Allan eBay shop?

If you replace the box go HP24 from a 4.6. might need the oil pump too. Cannot remember if the prop is different. Check @ovalandrover 's posts as he did the swap.
 
Grrrrrr said:
How much is it for a 20 litre drum of ATF d3 off the Smith & Allan eBay shop?

If you replace the box go HP24 from a 4.6. might need the oil pump too. Cannot remember if the prop is different. Check @ovalandrover 's posts as he did the swap.
Click to expand...

There are two versions of the HP24 gearbox used in the p38 an early one and a later type known as an 065 box. The number will be found on the gearbox plate.

The earlier HP24 is 15mm longer the diesel tailend housing can be fitted to bring it back to the same length overall. However the 065 is the safest bet

Ashcroft however can fit the HP24's stronger internals into the 22's casing.

TQ's only the diesel torque converter will fit into the diesel bellhousing. The 4.6 torque converters are too big Ashcroft again can fit a diesel one and reduce the stall speed to suit the derv better it reduces the revs and takes up the drive earlier which results in much more relaxed driving for the diesel.
 
Ashcroft are good units but cost their worth. A properly rebuilt Gbox would be better than another chancer.

Don't try dropping the box on your own unless you really know what you are doing, they are much heavier than you would think even compared to similar sized boxes.
 
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