P38 2.5 DSE Non starter. 1999.. Plus No Reverse..

Henry_b said:

the pressure plate on the B clutch assembly if broken will cause no reverse as i said above..

I have a feeling the HP22 i pulled, was broken beacuse the owner tended to drop it into reverse at over 10mph

Luckily a fresh box and a lecture on how not to drive an Auto seems to have elightened him..

Hopefully i don't have to do it again in te future..

The Oil was also Black as night..

If you have sludge and crap in your sump, it's almost certainly fooked, to put it lightly

Tranny fluid should be changed regularly.

Click to expand...

Began round two today.....
Added bottle of Liquid Moly, and ran for 10mins, cycling through gears as stated. Dropped oil. Removed sump. Oil still really brown, but not quite as bad. Sump remarkably clean, not sludge and hardly anything at all on magnet. Cleaned, new seal, new filter, and refilled including a bottle of Lucas......

Went round block.........and........... bloody awful, haha. Still no reverse and almost nothing in drive. very close call trying to enter a roundabout when it was litterally doing about 2mph for a good 50 yards, haha.

Came back, dropped oil again, still brown but definately lighter, so working through all old stuff gradually. Refilled again with another bottle of Lucas...
Dark by then, but still didnt seem any better on drive way, so guess time to give up and start looking for another box....

Strange thing is (and i get what Henry_b says about old oil providing friction etc) but although there is no or very little forward drive, it's not slipping as revs dont rise rapidly or at all sometimes, just sits there going no where... so guessing its well and truly knackered.

So, it isn't "no drive" it's "no power'
Completely different.
If you had no drive, it would rev its nuts off but not go anywhere.

BrenK said:

Began round two today.....
Added bottle of Liquid Moly, and ran for 10mins, cycling through gears as stated. Dropped oil. Removed sump. Oil still really brown, but not quite as bad. Sump remarkably clean, not sludge and hardly anything at all on magnet. Cleaned, new seal, new filter, and refilled including a bottle of Lucas......

Went round block.........and........... bloody awful, haha. Still no reverse and almost nothing in drive. very close call trying to enter a roundabout when it was litterally doing about 2mph for a good 50 yards, haha.

Came back, dropped oil again, still brown but definately lighter, so working through all old stuff gradually. Refilled again with another bottle of Lucas...
Dark by then, but still didnt seem any better on drive way, so guess time to give up and start looking for another box....

Strange thing is (and i get what Henry_b says about old oil providing friction etc) but although there is no or very little forward drive, it's not slipping as revs dont rise rapidly or at all sometimes, just sits there going no where... so guessing its well and truly knackered.

Click to expand...

As Wazzanjr says you have an engine problem not a gearbox problem.

Datatek said:

As Wazzanjr says you have an engine problem not a gearbox problem.

Click to expand...

Think it is highly likely he has both.

Automatic is new to me, so my terminology may be wrong.
Problem only manifested it self since changed ATF, Before I changed oil it would go ok forwards, just hold gears for a while before changing up.
Engine starts and ticks over really smoothly and revs freely with no load, no undue noises etc.
Sometimes it will move forward in any gear quite normally. But sometimes if on an incline I can select D, 3, ,2, or 1 and it just sits there not moving and occasional revs don’t increase even with accelerator applied.

All new territory for me so got no clues where to start looking next ?
Any info or help/advice greatly appreciated, so I know where to start investigating next.

BrenK said:

Automatic is new to me, so my terminology may be wrong.
Problem only manifested it self since changed ATF, Before I changed oil it would go ok forwards, just hold gears for a while before changing up.
Engine starts and ticks over really smoothly and revs freely with no load, no undue noises etc.
Sometimes it will move forward in any gear quite normally. But sometimes if on an incline I can select D, 3, ,2, or 1 and it just sits there not moving and occasional revs don’t increase even with accelerator applied.

All new territory for me so got no clues where to start looking next ?
Any info or help/advice greatly appreciated, so I know where to start investigating next.

Click to expand...

@jamesmartin and @Bemble are the gearbox gurus, although bemble plays with the newer boxes I think.

BrenK said:

Automatic is new to me, so my terminology may be wrong.
Problem only manifested it self since changed ATF, Before I changed oil it would go ok forwards, just hold gears for a while before changing up.
Engine starts and ticks over really smoothly and revs freely with no load, no undue noises etc.
Sometimes it will move forward in any gear quite normally. But sometimes if on an incline I can select D, 3, ,2, or 1 and it just sits there not moving and occasional revs don’t increase even with accelerator applied.

All new territory for me so got no clues where to start looking next ?
Any info or help/advice greatly appreciated, so I know where to start investigating next.

Click to expand...

I have had both these problems
1 gearbox was no problem to diagnose Kept revvings its nut off especially when trying to change gear. Valve block and clutch pack were u/s replaced gearbox
2 regards with the no drive without revs going off scale especially on an incline mine was found to be a faulty maf sensor causing fuel quantity servo issues Needed diagnostics to find this out so would recommend you try this. Could be a sensor but I leave that to wiser folks than me to help

Rubberknees said:

I have had both these problems
1 gearbox was no problem to diagnose Kept revvings its nut off especially when trying to change gear. Valve block and clutch pack were u/s replaced gearbox
2 regards with the no drive without revs going off scale especially on an incline mine was found to be a faulty maf sensor causing fuel quantity servo issues Needed diagnostics to find this out so would recommend you try this. Could be a sensor but I leave that to wiser folks than me to help

Click to expand...

MAF sensor has nothing to with fuel quantity servo but a totally duff one may cause the ECU to throw a wobbler..

Thread started with bubbles/not starting.

Extreme delamination I would check. Nanocom is best if terminology/diagnosis is sketchy

wammers said:

MAF sensor has nothing to with fuel quantity servo but a totally duff one may cause the ECU to throw a wobbler..

Click to expand...

Cheers @wammers stand corrected maf sensor was totally duff as when replaced with a known good one my problems were cured and all fault codes could be cleared and didn't come back. Maybe ecu was being thrown out. I will hold my hands up as not an expert on these things.

If an expert was here you’d know,

wammers would be teaching them fix it properly

It really needs to go on diagnostics. If it will not rev, it could be something like the throttle potentiometer which may also affect gearbox function.

Revs issue only started since started messing with the gear box, so hoping it’s something related and simple. Don’t have access to nanocom etc but keeping my eyes open for one.

Still trying to get my head round how an auto works (spending so much time on google etc I’m missing all the sunshine and wife is getting suspicious as to what I’m looking at in the early hours )

If the change of oil has made the cutch not “bite” I can get that, but where does the torque converter fit into equation? And what effect could the change have had on that?

Any way that’s just the inquisitive engineer in me wanting to know how things work, a I believe if you know how it’s supposed to work in the first place you stand a much better chance of working out why it’s not working.

But know mine is beyond fixing. So hunt has started for a replacement. This will open a new can of worms debate wise, but funds won’t stretch to a re-con one just yet, as I'm going to have to pay to get it fitted, as just don’t have the facilities, not doing it laying on my back on drive with car on axle stands (to old for that now, haha) been quoted about £300 to swap boxes.

But am I completely wasting money on a used unit from a known donor? I know it’s all ifs and buts, but want to know what experience people have had?

Seen straight swap one including Torque Converter but not Transfer box (looks easy enough to swap over........ famous last words!) form a 65000 mile 2001 dse for £260 with 30 day warranty.

And also, what I believe is a H24 converted with dse bell housing and torque converter, removed from 2000, 60000 miler, again 30 day warranty. For £280.

Any thoughts welcomed as always.
Cheers.

Do those prices include the box and fitting or just the box as I paid £730 for a 60000 mile box supplied and fitted with 3mnth warranty, if that helps

2nd hand units are a gamble obviously. Best bet is new but price is extortionate so I’d go with get rebuilt unit and trade in yours to them so keep cost down

Rubberknees said:

Do those prices include the box and fitting or just the box as I paid £730 for a 60000 mile box supplied and fitted with 3mnth warranty, if that helps

Click to expand...

Those prices are just for the box. Neither place offers fitting. So that would be extra to a good garage I use.
Where did yours come from, if you don't mind me asking? And did you have any issues? (know that's no guarantee I wouldn't have as I know all boxes different etc, just interested)
Cheers.

RangeRoller dt said:

2nd hand units are a gamble obviously. Best bet is new but price is extortionate so I’d go with get rebuilt unit and trade in yours to them so keep cost down

Click to expand...

Agree, but still don't think I can stretch to that yet. Ashcrofts seems to be a popular and reliable place. But looking on their site, I'd be looking a £725/795 for a recon box, including having mine back. Factor in fitting and I'm looking at circa £1100. But know that used unit is a lottery.......just don't know which way to jump?

Someone else mentioned Aztec engineering, their prices are a little lower, £600 ish, but still pushing it a bit..... any one used them?

Cheers.

BrenK said:

Those prices are just for the box. Neither place offers fitting. So that would be extra to a good garage I use.
Where did yours come from, if you don't mind me asking? And did you have any issues? (know that's no guarantee I wouldn't have as I know all boxes different etc, just interested)
Cheers.

Click to expand...

I have a local independent land rover garage (all ex land rover mechanics chief mechanic owns 4 P38's) and they sourced it from one of their regular suppliers. Only had one problem with it was breather pipe blocked and was sorted while I waited. Have now had it in 14 mnths and has been OK. (hope I haven't just put a curse on it)

A second hand HP 24 is a reasonable bet, the 4.6 is often still on low miles before scrapping, the box is stronger than the HP 22 and it fits.

Rubberknees said:

I have a local independent land rover garage (all ex land rover mechanics chief mechanic owns 4 P38's) and they sourced it from one of their regular suppliers. Only had one problem with it was breather pipe blocked and was sorted while I waited. Have now had it in 14 mnths and has been OK. (hope I haven't just put a curse on it)

Click to expand...

Cheers.