OT - unbelievable

> There's hardly a flood of people leaving in any significant numbers.

over 200,000 *British* emigrants per *year* - I would hardly call that
insignificant!

> Not having a family I don't know what you see that's better over there

Ah, you see - there is the difference. I would probably be quite happy
to stay in the UK as a single person. I'd probably still be living in
London making lots of money if I was single, but a family gives you a
rather different perspective on life.

Matt

Dave P wrote:
> Cyclist caught going through red light, fined £30. Appeals, complains
> that this is a waste of police time, and the wrong thing to do, as it
> discourages people from getting out of their cars and onto a bike.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/5179058.stm
>
> He should try driving a car for a bit. Then he's know about
> unreasonable enforcement of the law. I bet he wears a bobble hat.

This was actually in our local paper yesterday (yes - I'm sorry to say
I live in Bristol!) On the 'comment' page the guy wrote pretty much
exactly what has been said in here and went on about what in idiot the
cyclist was, and that it is about time cyclists started being
prosecuted for ignoring the rules of the road.

Matt

On 2006-07-16, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:

> over 200,000 *British* emigrants per *year* - I would hardly call that
> insignificant!

It's totally insignificant. There's just over 60 *million* people in
the UK, 200,000 people buggering off is completely insignificant. 50
million people live in England alone.

> Ah, you see - there is the difference. I would probably be quite happy
> to stay in the UK as a single person. I'd probably still be living in
> London making lots of money if I was single, but a family gives you a
> rather different perspective on life.

Yes, like where the bloody hell has all my time and money gone ;-)

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

> It's totally insignificant. There's just over 60 *million* people in
> the UK, 200,000 people buggering off is completely insignificant. 50
> million people live in England alone.

And how many of those 60M are working - not as many as you would think.

> Yes, like where the bloody hell has all my time and money gone ;-)

Too bloody true!!

Matt

On 2006-07-16, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:

> And how many of those 60M are working - not as many as you would think.

I wonder how many of the emmigrates are working? Lots of retired
people sod off to spain and france.

> Too bloody true!!

You lose enough time with just nieces and nephews!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:21:47 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2006-07-16, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> And how many of those 60M are working - not as many as you would think.
>
>I wonder how many of the emmigrates are working? Lots of retired
>people sod off to spain and france.

200,000/60 million is one in 300 isnt it?

in which case, I should think that a lot of the emigrates are people
aged 20-30 (my generation). Or that number is totally off.
Of people who were good friends over the last 10 years, (excluding
those ive lost touch with) there is one in the US, one in france and
one in dubai and 3 more off to bits of europe in the next 6 months.
I should think that my friend count is more like 50 than 300 and that
is 6/50 which is a much more significant number.

where did the 200,000 numbe come from and i wonder if that just counts
'permenants' or 'indefinates'

>> Too bloody true!!
>
>You lose enough time with just nieces and nephews!

On 2006-07-16, Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

> 200,000/60 million is one in 300 isnt it?

Yes, 0.3%, so 99.7% don't emigrate.

> in which case, I should think that a lot of the emigrates are people
> aged 20-30 (my generation). Or that number is totally off.

I don't think it's that really, expats seem to mostly be old, and a
fair whack of them come back to use the NHS on a regular basis, using
a relative's address as their "place of residence". After leaving the
country, you're not eligible for NHS treatment after 3 months. Ronnie
Biggs gave himself up and came to Britain, specifically so he could
use the NHS, goes to show you what health care can be like overseas ;-)

My ex-landlady has a son who's returned from New Zealand in the last 5
years after living there long enough to pick up a wife and a few kids,
originally he came back to use the NHS to fix a cancerous tumour in
his ankle, but has now re-settled in the UK because he could get a job
easier and the schools were better. So he comes from the nirvana that
is New Zealand to use the much-slated NHS, then finds getting a job
easier, and the schooling better. The grass is always greener I
suppose. On the basis of personal testimonies it's very easy to get
confusing pictures as each situation is so different.

> where did the 200,000 numbe come from and i wonder if that just counts
> 'permenants' or 'indefinates'

Yeah, it's hard to tell really, e.g. young adults who spend a year or
two mooching around Australia before coming home for a career.

I'd imagine that the number of people emigrating has gone up over the
years, but I'd reckon it's more to do with the price of travel, and
the relative wealth of Britons these days. Despite the moaning, I
don't know of a single person in my group of associates/family who was
better off 10 years ago than they are today. That's a 100%
improvement rate, if you're going to use your 6/300 rate then I'll use
my 100% better-off "statistic" ;-)

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In message <[email protected]>
Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2006-07-16, Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 200,000/60 million is one in 300 isnt it?
>
> Yes, 0.3%, so 99.7% don't emigrate.
>
> > in which case, I should think that a lot of the emigrates are people
> > aged 20-30 (my generation). Or that number is totally off.
>
> I don't think it's that really, expats seem to mostly be old, and a
> fair whack of them come back to use the NHS on a regular basis, using
> a relative's address as their "place of residence". After leaving the
> country, you're not eligible for NHS treatment after 3 months. Ronnie
> Biggs gave himself up and came to Britain, specifically so he could
> use the NHS, goes to show you what health care can be like overseas ;-)
>
> My ex-landlady has a son who's returned from New Zealand in the last 5
> years after living there long enough to pick up a wife and a few kids,
> originally he came back to use the NHS to fix a cancerous tumour in
> his ankle, but has now re-settled in the UK because he could get a job
> easier and the schools were better. So he comes from the nirvana that
> is New Zealand to use the much-slated NHS, then finds getting a job
> easier, and the schooling better. The grass is always greener I
> suppose. On the basis of personal testimonies it's very easy to get
> confusing pictures as each situation is so different.
>
> > where did the 200,000 numbe come from and i wonder if that just counts
> > 'permenants' or 'indefinates'
>
> Yeah, it's hard to tell really, e.g. young adults who spend a year or
> two mooching around Australia before coming home for a career.
>
> I'd imagine that the number of people emigrating has gone up over the
> years, but I'd reckon it's more to do with the price of travel, and
> the relative wealth of Britons these days. Despite the moaning, I
> don't know of a single person in my group of associates/family who was
> better off 10 years ago than they are today. That's a 100%
> improvement rate, if you're going to use your 6/300 rate then I'll use
> my 100% better-off "statistic" ;-)
>

I can't give a link, but I'm sure that the last Government statistics
were that more are leaving than comming in, but how that was
calculated wasn't made clear. Personaly my motive for wishing to
leave is the ever growing trend of intollerance to others by
minorities who then force their views on others by claiming
some hypothetical moral high ground.

I was going to give an example, but then I realised that every
single pleasure/pass-time/hobby/interest I have has been
legislated against in the last 5 years! Jesus, what a bloody
country we live in........

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

beamendsltd wrote:

> I was going to give an example, but then I realised that every
> single pleasure/pass-time/hobby/interest I have has been
> legislated against in the last 5 years! Jesus, what a bloody
> country we live in........

So fight it, vote, get out and complain, do something.

Steve

In message <[email protected]>
steve <[email protected]> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
>
> > I was going to give an example, but then I realised that every
> > single pleasure/pass-time/hobby/interest I have has been
> > legislated against in the last 5 years! Jesus, what a bloody
> > country we live in........
>
> So fight it, vote, get out and complain, do something.
>

No point - I don't do trendy, each quiche, live in a fashionable
area of London or think Centre Parcs represent the countryside.
Or have friends in "the media" or on the council.

No one, particulary politicians, is interested in the "Well
if you don't like it *you* go elsewhere and leave us alone"
view point - they just want to demmand *their* rights, mine
don't count somehow. And of course I live north of Waftord Gap
Services so don't count anyway.

> Steve

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:20:12 +0100, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

> ...
> I was going to give an example, but then I realised that every
> single pleasure/pass-time/hobby/interest I have has been
> legislated against in the last 5 years! Jesus, what a bloody
> country we live in........

OTOH adultery is no longer a criminal offence. scnr

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

William Tasso wrote:

|| On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:20:12 +0100, beamendsltd
|| <[email protected]> wrote:
||
||| ...
||| I was going to give an example, but then I realised that every
||| single pleasure/pass-time/hobby/interest I have has been
||| legislated against in the last 5 years! Jesus, what a bloody
||| country we live in........
||
|| OTOH adultery is no longer a criminal offence. scnr

So you can sh*g anyone you like in Blair's Britain, as long as you don't
drive to the hotel at 31mph in a 4x4, or smoke afterwards.

--
Rich
==============================

I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.

> where did the 200,000 numbe come from and i wonder if that just counts
> 'permenants' or 'indefinates'

The figure was from the ONS and was British citizens who emigrated - if
I remember correctly they said 206,000. No more detail than that. I
would take it that by stating British citizens that the vast majority
of them are people who lived here permanently rather than anything else,
as there were figures given for other types of immigration.

As you said, if you ask anyone they will probably know at least one,
probably more people who have left the UK to live elsewhere. Both
my best friends (also hard working, ex top-rate tax payers) have left
the UK to settle elsewhere.

Matt

In message <[email protected]>
"William Tasso" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:20:12 +0100, beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ...
> > I was going to give an example, but then I realised that every
> > single pleasure/pass-time/hobby/interest I have has been
> > legislated against in the last 5 years! Jesus, what a bloody
> > country we live in........
>
> OTOH adultery is no longer a criminal offence. scnr
>

I'm pleased to say that particular activity is not one of which
I partake, or wish to!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

On 2006-07-16, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:

> I can't give a link, but I'm sure that the last Government statistics
> were that more are leaving than comming in, but how that was
> calculated wasn't made clear.

Great, the fewer people the better IMHO, too many people already, we
all get under each other's feet.

> Personaly my motive for wishing to leave is the ever growing trend
> of intollerance to others by minorities who then force their views
> on others by claiming some hypothetical moral high ground.

Indeed, although it does have to be said that I've read quite a bit
about that, but not even the NERC bill has had any direct effect on
me. I think it all depends on where you live, and that's the same
world-wide. In France for example, the Military Vehicle Trust is
cautioning members to be careful as they are introducing legislation
that bans the ownership of ex-military vehicles by private citizens,
anyone owning an ex-mil vehicle will have it confiscated and scrapped
if the legislation goes through as it is. This will also apply to
people from Britain driving through France so if the legislation goes
through, Brits in ex-mil vehicles will be greeted in France by cops
wielding car crushers. Even Ken Livingstone is making exemptions for
people owning ex-mil and historic vehicles as he appreciates that
they're rarely driven and don't contribute anything to pollution as a
result. The legislation in Britain that was introduced to ban the
ownership of replica guns originally applied to ex-mil vehicles,
including tanks, that's now been modified after pressure from ex-mil
owners individually writing to MPs.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On 2006-07-16, steve <[email protected]> wrote:

> So fight it, vote, get out and complain, do something.

Far easier to bitch, moan, be paranoid and then leave the country to
start bitching, moaning and being paranoid elsewhere, leave 'em to it
I say.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On 2006-07-16, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:

> As you said, if you ask anyone they will probably know at least one,
> probably more people who have left the UK to live elsewhere. Both
> my best friends (also hard working, ex top-rate tax payers) have left
> the UK to settle elsewhere.

If I moved out of the country, it would be for tax reasons, that's the
driver behind a lot of it. There are major advantages to living
overseas while working in Britain.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In message <[email protected]>
Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2006-07-16, Matthew Maddock <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > As you said, if you ask anyone they will probably know at least one,
> > probably more people who have left the UK to live elsewhere. Both
> > my best friends (also hard working, ex top-rate tax payers) have left
> > the UK to settle elsewhere.
>
> If I moved out of the country, it would be for tax reasons, that's the
> driver behind a lot of it. There are major advantages to living
> overseas while working in Britain.
>

You'd need to tread very carefully doing that. If you set foot in
the country for *any* reason for a period of less than 12 months
and one day you are liable for UK tax (used to be 6 months a few
years back).

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

> You'd need to tread very carefully doing that. If you set foot in
> the country for *any* reason for a period of less than 12 months
> and one day you are liable for UK tax (used to be 6 months a few
> years back).

Yeah, it's still 6 months Richard. There are some rules that allow you
to be resident in the UK but domicile in another country so you can
pay tax in that country - but don't ask me about those - they are for
people like Phillip Green who wants to avoid paying tax on his millions
in dividends! Not that I blame him, if he can get away with it, good
on him! His businesses put huge amounts of money (and tax) into this
country as it is.

Matt

beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> steve <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>beamendsltd wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I was going to give an example, but then I realised that every
>>>single pleasure/pass-time/hobby/interest I have has been
>>>legislated against in the last 5 years! Jesus, what a bloody
>>>country we live in........
>>
>>So fight it, vote, get out and complain, do something.
>>
>
>
> No point - I don't do trendy, each quiche, live in a fashionable
> area of London or think Centre Parcs represent the countryside.
> Or have friends in "the media" or on the council.
>
> No one, particulary politicians, is interested in the "Well
> if you don't like it *you* go elsewhere and leave us alone"
> view point - they just want to demmand *their* rights, mine
> don't count somehow. And of course I live north of Waftord Gap
> Services so don't count anyway.
>
>
>>Steve
>
>
> Richard
>
All I can say is that, some years ago, the Custom Bike world was annoyed
that some faceless person at the TRRL wanted the DTp to legislate that
all motorbikes should carry flashing amber indicators. A letter writing
campaign was launched (probabaly by MAG), and the idea was dropped. The
weight of the postbag that stopped the plan? 39 letters.

Stuart