OT - remould tyres

The Volvo is ready for new front tyres. The OEM pirellis managed 11K,
the Michelins that followed them have gone 24K which is good value for
the extra five quid they cost. They were also lots quieter.

Now, I can buy the Michelins for about £110 online or at the local
fastfit (who I know and trust to do a decent job) for £145. Not a big
difference for the convenience but still a big whack in the wallet,
especially as the rears are nearly ready for replacing too!

However, the Colway website Mr Nice recommended will do remoulds for
£39. Assuming they are on a decent carcass, what are the pitfalls of
the remoulds? I like the lower price and the environmental plusses,
but I do lots of high speed motorway driving (the Michelins have done
24K in 6 months) so I don't want to risk blowouts or other horrors.

Any opinions?


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

Tim Hobbs raised the following...

However, the Colway website Mr Nice recommended will do remoulds for
£39. Assuming they are on a decent carcass, what are the pitfalls of
the remoulds? I like the lower price and the environmental plusses,
but I do lots of high speed motorway driving (the Michelins have done
24K in 6 months) so I don't want to risk blowouts or other horrors.

Any opinions?

The following snip from RoSPA web site

http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/motorvehicles/tyres.htm


"What is a remould tyre?
A remould tyre is made from an old tyre. Old tyres which are not sound
should never be used as components for remould tyres. The essential building
block for a remould tyre is a used tyre whose tread is worn-out but whose
carcass (basic structure) is sound. Preparation for remoulding involves
stripping away the tread of the worn-out tyre. The final part of the process
moulds a new tread onto the old carcass using a new rubber compound. "

"What problems are there with remould tyres?
In the majority of cases remould tyres perform satisfactorily provided the
manufacturer's guidance about maximum vehicle loadings and maximum speeds is
followed. Overloading, sustained high speeds, and under or over-inflation
all contribute to increased tyre wear and/or premature failure."

As you mention you do a lot of high speed motorway driving. For that reason
alone I would not place my self or that of my passengers in jeopardy.

What's to say the cases are not substandard?

For the sake of about four hundred quid is it worth risking it?


--
Simon Mills

98 Disco Tdi autoa

Tim Hobbs composed the following;:
> The Volvo is ready for new front tyres. The OEM pirellis managed 11K,
> the Michelins that followed them have gone 24K which is good value for
> the extra five quid they cost. They were also lots quieter.
>
> Now, I can buy the Michelins for about £110 online or at the local
> fastfit (who I know and trust to do a decent job) for £145. Not a big
> difference for the convenience but still a big whack in the wallet,
> especially as the rears are nearly ready for replacing too!
>
> However, the Colway website Mr Nice recommended will do remoulds for
> £39. Assuming they are on a decent carcass, what are the pitfalls of
> the remoulds? I like the lower price and the environmental plusses,
> but I do lots of high speed motorway driving (the Michelins have done
> 24K in 6 months) so I don't want to risk blowouts or other horrors.
>
> Any opinions?

I like remoulds for mud-plugging and low-speed stuff. I would not trust
them completely if I were hannering up and down motorways all day. When
I did that I stuck to known brands and decent service. If you have a
known decent tyre fitter, then stick with them, I'd say. Get the
Colways for off-roading or round town etc ..

My opinion only.

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ...
"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

On or around Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:53:33 +0000, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>However, the Colway website Mr Nice recommended will do remoulds for
>£39. Assuming they are on a decent carcass, what are the pitfalls of
>the remoulds? I like the lower price and the environmental plusses,
>but I do lots of high speed motorway driving (the Michelins have done
>24K in 6 months) so I don't want to risk blowouts or other horrors.

my experience of remoulds on the front of a FWD car is that they lasted
about 5000 miles. Maybe the remoulds are better now...

The sierra4x4 has Nankangs on it, good and cheap, I found 'em. I forget the
number but it's a 195/60 tyre and more "sporting" tread pattern.

oooer.

http://www.tyres-online.co.uk/products.asp

and look at the bit about "tweel".

heh. Nankang's site is rather flashy.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; and
therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee"
John Donne (1571? - 1631) Devotions, XVII

On or around Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:53:33 +0000, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>The Volvo is ready for new front tyres. The OEM pirellis managed 11K,
>the Michelins that followed them have gone 24K which is good value for
>the extra five quid they cost. They were also lots quieter.
>

wot size are they?

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; and
therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee"
John Donne (1571? - 1631) Devotions, XVII

"Mr.Nice." <markvarleyphoto@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:53:33 +0000, Tim Hobbs
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >The Volvo is ready for new front tyres. The OEM pirellis managed 11K,
> >the Michelins that followed them have gone 24K which is good value for
> >the extra five quid they cost. They were also lots quieter.
> >
> >Now, I can buy the Michelins for about £110 online or at the local
> >fastfit (who I know and trust to do a decent job) for £145. Not a big
> >difference for the convenience but still a big whack in the wallet,
> >especially as the rears are nearly ready for replacing too!
> >
> >However, the Colway website Mr Nice recommended will do remoulds for
> >£39. Assuming they are on a decent carcass, what are the pitfalls of
> >the remoulds? I like the lower price and the environmental plusses,
> >but I do lots of high speed motorway driving (the Michelins have done
> >24K in 6 months) so I don't want to risk blowouts or other horrors.
> >
> >Any opinions?
>
> I use remoulds on my land rover which puts out about as much
> horsepower as a hamster in a wheel, and never gets above 70 miles per
> hour.
> I will not put remoulds on my wifes saab which puts out about 200bhp
> and can hit three figure speeds before you notice.
>
> I'm sure remoulds are perfectly safe within the speed and load
> restrictions the manufacturer states.
>
>
> Regards.
> Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.)

Hi

11k and 24k seem rather poor figures for a modern well known brand and I
would have been disapointed with less than double that. Perhaps a session on
a four wheel tracking device could save some future cash ?

I changed the Pirellis on the Primera at 55k and bought a pair of Budget
tyres which , so far, seem OK. Although I do a lot of motorway stuff I don't
go in for the three figure speeds. I paid £85 to replace a nail damage
Pirelli, V rated bla bla bla. and only 39 for the budget equivalent. there
probably is a good reason for choosing the best if you are taking the tyre
to its limits, but just because its got 140 mph on the clock .....

Best of Luck

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> my experience of remoulds on the front of a FWD car is that they lasted
> about 5000 miles. Maybe the remoulds are better now...
>
> The sierra4x4 has Nankangs on it, good and cheap, I found 'em. I forget
> the
> number but it's a 195/60 tyre and more "sporting" tread pattern.
>
> oooer.
>
> http://www.tyres-online.co.uk/products.asp
>
> and look at the bit about "tweel".
>
> heh. Nankang's site is rather flashy.

We had a set of Remolds on Reggie, some my recall my Beige 3.5 V8 which we
sold in 1999/2000.. i forget... Anyway , after they had done around 1500
miles on Reggie they Migrated to a new set of rims and Landied on Alfie
where they have all live since bar one which became pourous and had to be
replaced. When we got Alfie I recall he had 76 K miles on or there abouts,
He's now on 103 K miles. Only the front Drivers side is showing signs of
needing replacement soon (the next 12 months) as it's worn more on the inner
edge... no doubt a camber and weights of the driver issue (Not that I'm fat,
just that usually theres a driver in him when he's on the move 8o) ). Thats
roughly 27000 miles for those not to hot on maths, a quarter of the vehicles
milage.

They are Bronco AT retreads and cost me £50 a corner fitted and balanced.

I would point out our Motorway cruises tends to peak at 80mph it is a VM TD
afterall.

They have had several off road excursions including 2 trips around Cannock
chase, being AT's there capabilities werew to be respected. towed our v.big
caravan up and down the country. Only time they left me stuck was towing the
caravan across the soup at Gaydon last year, the caravan made for a pretty
good ground anchor and to my relief there were several others who got stuck
in the same place who weren't towing anything.

Despite this good service, I think I'd still aire on the side of caution if
I had a vehicle capable of over 100mph which they were fitted to.

The other thing to point out being that 4x4 Tyres tend to have more tread to
go at which is probably why I've got good milage from these.. Not that they
are looking thin on top yet.

Lee D

>Hi
>
>11k and 24k seem rather poor figures for a modern well known brand and I
>would have been disapointed with less than double that. Perhaps a session on
>a four wheel tracking device could save some future cash ?
>
>I changed the Pirellis on the Primera at 55k and bought a pair of Budget
>tyres which , so far, seem OK. Although I do a lot of motorway stuff I don't
>go in for the three figure speeds. I paid £85 to replace a nail damage
>Pirelli, V rated bla bla bla. and only 39 for the budget equivalent. there
>probably is a good reason for choosing the best if you are taking the tyre
>to its limits, but just because its got 140 mph on the clock .....
>
>Best of Luck
>

I don't know what you do to get 55K out of front tyres on a front
drive car, but the only car that ever got in that ballpark for me was
my Peugeot 205. Even that only did 35-40K on fronts.

A two ton front drive car that spends most of its day at 70-110mph is
never going to get 55K out of very low profile, performance-biased
tyres. Then again, a previous vehicle managed 8K on a pair of £280
rears, so I'm not too worried!

The Pirellis were garbage. My trusted tyre fitter told me so, and
before looking at them told me they would be worn in a step pattern
(rear of each block wearing more than the front of the block). He was
absolutely right - that's why they were noisy and it's apparently due
to relatively weak cross-binding allowing the blocks to twist. The
wear pattern on both Pirellis and Michelins was completely even across
the width, and the tracking has always shown up virtually bang on.

The Colways are V rated, so I'd be using them within their
specification. The only question mark is whether Colway's QC
procedures are good enough to ensure that only good quality carcasses
are used. I check pressures weekly, so they never run underinflated.

Even so, I'd always be wondering...


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:01:56 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:53:33 +0000, Tim Hobbs
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>The Volvo is ready for new front tyres. The OEM pirellis managed 11K,
>>the Michelins that followed them have gone 24K which is good value for
>>the extra five quid they cost. They were also lots quieter.
>>
>
>wot size are they?

225 x 45 R17

Basically a 17 inch rim with a thin coating of rubber on it!


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

On or around Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:44:09 +0000, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:01:56 +0000, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On or around Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:53:33 +0000, Tim Hobbs
>><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>The Volvo is ready for new front tyres. The OEM pirellis managed 11K,
>>>the Michelins that followed them have gone 24K which is good value for
>>>the extra five quid they cost. They were also lots quieter.
>>>
>>
>>wot size are they?
>
>225 x 45 R17
>
>Basically a 17 inch rim with a thin coating of rubber on it!

Nankang NS-1 or NS-2 look quite interesting, at about 55 quid inc the
dreaded from this lot:

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/reifenbestellen.pl?typ=R-106008&dsco=10
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/reifenbestellen.pl?typ=R-106018&dsco=10

I've had lesser Nankangs on a fiarly powerful motor and found nowt wrong
with 'em.

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/start.html

gets you a list, if you pick "category 4", then you get the whole list
starting from the cheap end... Bridgestone Potenza at the top of the list at
about 134 quid a pop.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The boys are dreaming wicked or of the bucking ranches of the night and
the jollyrodgered sea." Dylan Thomas (1914 - 1953) Under milk wood

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:15:42 GMT, Simon Mills wrote:

> http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/motorvehicles/tyres.htm
>
> "What problems are there with remould tyres?
> In the majority of cases remould tyres perform satisfactorily
> provided the manufacturer's guidance about maximum vehicle loadings
> and maximum speeds is followed. Overloading, sustained high speeds,
> and under or over-inflation all contribute to increased tyre wear
> and/or premature failure."

Or

"What problems are there with new tyres?"
< insert same answer but s/remould/new/ >

A non-answer from ROSPA IMHO.

> What's to say the cases are not substandard?

This is the key. How do they check/test the cases before remoulding?
Remoulds used to (talking 30+ years ago) have a terrible reputation
but that is so long ago it can't really be taken to be valid anymore.

I'm in two minds about 'em, the vast majority of HGVs out there are
running on remoulds... Does the ROSPA site have any real figures about
failure rates of remoulds v new?

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On or around Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:40:58 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>This is the key. How do they check/test the cases before remoulding?
>Remoulds used to (talking 30+ years ago) have a terrible reputation
>but that is so long ago it can't really be taken to be valid anymore.

true, but there's still the point about what they're moulded onto. We'v all
noted varied performance form different makes of tyre, and some of it is
probably down to carcass stiffness etc. in addition to tread pattern and
compound. A set of (e.g.) goodyears one would hope to have the same carcass
construction, but a set of 4 remoulds, while you'd expect them to be the
same PR and the same type (e.g/ steel belted, 4 PR) might have different
carcasses with different characteristics. I can't see how Colway (or
whoever) can select identical carcasses, since they'll vary from one tyre to
another.

>I'm in two minds about 'em, the vast majority of HGVs out there are
>running on remoulds... Does the ROSPA site have any real figures about
>failure rates of remoulds v new?

In the case of HGVs, I recall reading about this, the system seems to go:

new tyre
re-groove
remould
re-groove

but it's all, in that example, on the SAME tyre. in other words, you buy a
set of tyres, wear them down, get them cut, wear them down again, get 'em
remoulded, etc etc.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

Dave Liquorice wrote:
>
> This is the key. How do they check/test the cases before remoulding?

Visual and sometimes x-ray inspection, but AFAICT it's all a bit hit and
miss really. The biggest problem comes with case damage that has let
water into the steel cords, causing them to weaken and eventually fail
letting the tyre go out of shape.

> Remoulds used to (talking 30+ years ago) have a terrible reputation
> but that is so long ago it can't really be taken to be valid anymore.

Now they've got better spin doctors and a flash marketing department the
reputation is hostory, but has the reality changed?

>
> I'm in two minds about 'em, the vast majority of HGVs out there are
> running on remoulds...

Thay are, but remember that the larger the diameter, the less
revolutions for a given speed, thus the less internal forces generated,
so the less likely the tyre is to fail.

As an aside to this, one of the truck fleets we used to maintain moved
from remoulds to new tyres for all 25 trucks. Cost of tyres went up
about 250%, but tyre lifespan went up over 230%, tyre failures and
consequent downtime dropped to virtually zero, and their accident rate
dropped. Overall they claim to be saving significant amounts of money.


--
EMB

My company does a lot of work in the tyre industry, and plant / HGV
tyres are rather different to car tyres. For a start, they are much
higher value and tend to be leased rather than purchased. RF tagging
is becoming more common, and this allows operators to force the
remould industry to give them back their own carcasses - they thus
know the complete history of that carcass and can monitor performance
much more easily.

It's very easy for Colway et al to know what carcass they are using -
it's printed on the side of the originating tyre. It's impossible for
their buyers to know though after the remoulding process. How (or if)
they test the quality of the carcass is something I don't yet know.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:07:52 +1300, EMB wrote:

>> Remoulds used to (talking 30+ years ago) have a terrible reputation
>> but that is so long ago it can't really be taken to be valid
>> anymore.
>
> Now they've got better spin doctors and a flash marketing department
> the reputation is hostory, but has the reality changed?

Donno, thats why I'm askin'.

For those that like Michelin tyres Costco are doing 20% off "Buy any 4
from the Pilot, Energy, 4x4, or Commercial ranges" in the week
commencing 28th Feb. Now I don't know what their normal prices are
like and the voucher carefully avoids mentioning fitting/balancing
costs.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:18:52 +0000, Tim Hobbs wrote:

> It's very easy for Colway et al to know what carcass they are using
> - it's printed on the side of the originating tyre. It's impossible
> for their buyers to know though after the remoulding process.

And I bet the remoulders won't let on that their tyre X always uses
brand Y or Z carcasses, if they do that is. Mind it could be very good
marketing but I don't think they could use it directly without the
branded tyre makers coming down on 'em hard somehow.

> How (or if) they test the quality of the carcass is something I
> don't yet know.

Yet? I await with interest. B-)

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail