Oil pressure range

Can you do a pic of inner curve showing the sides that runs on crankshaft.

Blackburn said:

Can you do a pic of inner curve showing the sides that runs on crankshaft.

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Are you wondering about the channels?
To me the shells look identical except for the way the holes are drilled/beveled.

steve2286w said:

That sounds a bit concerning with the engine upside down and installling one main bearing at a time I nipped up cap bolts and rotated engine engine check for free turning and on the con rod bearings did
nip test on each
Did you still manage to do these tests , oil squirted on should be enough to lube before starting some might crank it over without starting
If shells have holes in bottom and top that’s good
I wonder if your sender needs 10v rather than12 v
http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?13572-Oil-Pressure-Gauge-Sender-unit

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I did not do the nip tests for different reasons - I don't have the calibrated papers, and I did not want to risk a test paper to get stuck between the top shell and the shaft, since I could not have removed the shaft to get it out again.
So I trusted the shells to all be the same and to within specs... I guess that is pragmatic naïveté?

My current worry is that I mounted the caps the wrong way around, which would allow the shells to slide around the shaft - what I mean is the following: the shells have the folded-out parts that drop into the notches, but they also stop them from rotating around the shaft. If the bottom caps are mounted correctly, then the fold-outs push agains the engine block, so the shell is fixed in place. The top shells are not like that because they are mounted with the fold-outs on the other side, so if the shaft rotates then it could simply bend in and the shell rotates. This is prevented by the bottom shells if they are installed correctly, but if they are in the reverse sense, then the two half-bearings could rotate together... I hope I am paranoid, but I think I really need to drop the sump again. (I was actually thinking about the blocked rotation as I installed the bearing halves, but I don't know if I was taking that into account when I actually mounted the bottom parts...)

btw - you quoted the spring compression earlier (where did you find those numbers?) - If I assume the steel ball to have a half-inch diameter and the compression of the spring when mounted is precisely what you quote (it is approximately that), then the pressure by the spring on the ball amounts to 85 psi. Conversely, if the oil pressure is more than that, the valve opens.

(The new sender/gauge takes 12 V - I had checked that.)

On the 200di you can’t fit caps wrong way round as it’s got the offset dowels each side - 2.6 may differ looking at pic below the half shell in crank main can only rotate one way when fitted by pushing on opposite end to bent tab(which is how you replaced them in situ) with the cap on that groove is on opposite side to dowel holes so shell is fixed in position
I got the specs from http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/2010/03/series-iii-workshop-manual/
Page 04-5
I would guess shell ball smaller than 1/2” compared to what I seen in mine but worth a quick calc however spring diameter about 12mm

kyamon said:

Are you wondering about the channels?
To me the shells look identical except for the way the holes are drilled/beveled.

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Yes it was the channel I was curious about as it appears that is what allows the oil to travel from block into crankshaft to get to big ends.
Your thought that a shell moved on start up would explain a lot , you are going to have to drop the sump and examine them.

Blackburn said:

Yes it was the channel I was curious about as it appears that is what allows the oil to travel from block into crankshaft to get to big ends.
Your thought that a shell moved on start up would explain a lot , you are going to have to drop the sump and examine them.

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just did that. Everything looks fine - the bottom halves are in the way they should be, the shells did not move, the holes and channels are there on all bottom halves and thus must also be there on the top ones (which i did not want to remove again) and, most imporyantly, there was oil everywhere, including the one flowing out of the crankshaft. So the lubrication actually works, which is the most important. Annoying as this was, it does give me some peace of mind. Even though i broke the contact off of a spark plug in the process and am out of hylomar now...

More and more everything points to the relief valve... but i really dont see how that could not function...

steve2286w said:

On the 200di you can’t fit caps wrong way round as it’s got the offset dowels each side - 2.6 may differ looking at pic below the half shell in crank main can only rotate one way when fitted by pushing on opposite end to bent tab(which is how you replaced them in situ) with the cap on that groove is on opposite side to dowel holes so shell is fixed in position
I got the specs from http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/2010/03/series-iii-workshop-manual/
Page 04-5
I would guess shell ball smaller than 1/2” compared to what I seen in mine but worth a quick calc however spring diameter about 12mm

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see my last message about the bearings and bottom halves.
I guess i will need to test the spring. But i think if it is the relief valve it would rather be a misalignment issue. The ball moves freely in its seat, but maybe the spring somehow pushes in a funny way.

This is the spring and plunger on mine , you can see the shiny bits on spring where it’s worn the radius off to a flat
Also on the plunger there is wear creating a ridge I didn’t know if could cause a problem as I hadn’t run th engine but changed for genuine land rover parts , looks promising following inspection So that’s a relief ( no pun intended)

steve2286w said:

View attachment 209998

This is the spring and plunger on mine , you can see the shiny bits on spring where it’s worn the radius off to a flat
Also on the plunger there is wear creating a ridge I didn’t know if could cause a problem as I hadn’t run th engine but changed for genuine land rover parts , looks promising following inspection So that’s a relief ( no pun intended)

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checked the spring - it compresses correctly, as fas as i can tell (my rig was sort of rudimentary; packs of sugar suddenly get a new purpose ).
The plunger in my case had a slight mark from the ball, but i dont know if that is from now or from before. I tried to wiggle it back and forth as i was tightening, to ensure correct searing - but i dont really see what else i can do. What i am not sure is if the spring housing has to go all the way in. I assume it does, since the manual does not say otherwise and there is a copper gasket...

I guess i will close her up again and hope for a miracle.

Do both halves of the bearings have the holes? Would have thought cap end did not need any!
Might just be as easy to manufacture all with holes , bet they do not do that now.

Blackburn said:

Do both halves of the bearings have the holes? Would have thought cap end did not need any!
Might just be as easy to manufacture all with holes , bet they do not do that now.

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i know that 8 out of 14 have holes, and all my old ones do. So i conclude that also the new ones that i did not re-check have them

Unfortunately there was no miracle. Car started (had to wiggle the distributor again), but the pressure is just as before.

However... (wait for it...) i tried again to loosen the relief valve spring, and this time it had an effect! The pressure initially rose to 100 psi but then suddenly dropped to about 60-70! So the valve does seem to open, just now how it should. I was hoping that this might have released something, but when i tightened the cap down again, the pressure was back at 100+ psi...

Can you space the cap off a little?

Blackburn said:

Can you space the cap off a little?

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I guess I could, and that way I can at least drive the car. But that is not really a satisfactory solution.... I would like to know what is wrong, and why - and I want to make sure I don't blow out the oil galleries or the filter housing at some point!

Blackburn said:

Can you space the cap off a little?

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Another way to get the oil pressure down would be to remove some of the oil - but I also don't really feel comfortable with that...

That sounded like a good test, and I would agree with Blackburn although the relief valve not supposed to,be adjustable by running engine and unscrewing valve release load on spring and pressure reqd to unseat ball bearing so when you get the pressure you want take that measurement and make it up in washers you could estimate thickness of washers using the spring rate and ball diameter
10mm ball diameter area = 0.12sq in
40psi on that ball = 4.8 pounds load
Spring rate is about 2mm/ lb
So by my calc 10mm spacer would drop it 40psi

steve2286w said:

That sounded like a good test, and I would agree with Blackburn although the relief valve not supposed to,be adjustable by running engine and unscrewing valve release load on spring and pressure reqd to unseat ball bearing so when you get the pressure you want take that measurement and make it up in washers you could estimate thickness of washers using the spring rate and ball diameter
10mm ball diameter area = 0.12sq in
40psi on that ball = 4.8 pounds load
Spring rate is about 2mm/ lb
So by my calc 10mm spacer would drop it 40psi

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I need to think about this... I could also just cut the spring in half (approximately).

Half a spring length sounds too drastic , you could nibble a turn at a time but Best way as you did just unscrew while running warm and measure the distance it needs to fully tighten home
It might be different to 10mm Then pack it out with washers if it turns out you find the prob for high pressure you can go back again

steve2286w said:

Half a spring length sounds too drastic , you could nibble a turn at a time but Best way as you did just unscrew while running warm and measure the distance it needs to fully tighten home
It might be different to 10mm Then pack it out with washers if it turns out you find the prob for high pressure you can go back again

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I will get a new spring in any case (hope I can find one at a local LR workshop, shipment from the UK is nearly impossible these days - so much so that I ended up with two sets of main bearings and two sets of big ends...).
But I must say that I am relieved (thanks for the pun ) that today I finally found something that had an effect. I hope it was not just a blip and can actually be reproduced!

Just a short update - problem is not solved.
I double checked all electrical connections on the pressure gauge (voltage reading 11.8 V with engine off), they are fine. Today I finally ran the engine up to temperature - the pressure stayed high but again dropped when I loosened the nut on the pressure relief valve (I did not turn it out until the pressure dropped to 50 psi, only to about 70. This needed about 5 mm, estimated.). There are big oil leaks on the filter housing and the sump. The latter most certainly just my fault because the seal is bad, the former possibly from high oil pressure. Both the filter and the o-ring are new.

I was hoping that the warm oil would release whatever is jammed, but that did not happen. I will now look for a new ball and spring and see if that does something.