Oh Dear!! What to do?

Just before Christmas, on the 1st icy day I put my lovely 2002 TD5 90 into a ditch at the side of the road. All very slow - no more than 20mph - but the stop was abrupt. After having it for 4 1/2 months the insurer / garage have now decided that it is not economical to repair it. The damage appeared not great, one wing, front panel pushed in, bumper bent, and a full tank of fuel disappeared somewhere. So minor (I thought) I considered doing it myself. Anyway, three things seem to have conspired to drive the cost up to being uneconomical. (a) The garage suggest the engine and drivetrain was knocked back in to the fuel tank - hence the leak. They are worried that if knocked off mountings the engine / gearbox might be damaged (they suggested a gearbox leak) (b) It seems like they have priced in lots of bits that were not damaged (such as a very expensive winch) - they say that as a BS approved garage they must replace everything within xx m of the damage zone even if not involved, and (c) they are clearly not familiar with Defenders which must push up the price higher still.

I'd probably have been better insisting it went to the guy up the road who fixes the farmers' Landys but ironically I would have had to pay extra for that privilege.

The conundrum I have is that I don't really want any Landy - I want my Landy - the one that I know inside out, have improved over the years, and stars in our family photographs and fondest memories - is that silly?

They have given me a price of just over 3K to buy my vehicle back from them. I'm not happy by a long shot with the settlement price but I'm working on it.

The engine and gearbox were formerly perfect - no leaks and never missed a beat. Anyone have experience of the damage that can result to the drivetrain from a slow impact?

So, do I take the full sum and buy something new (or nothing) - or do I get my really nice, but slightly bent TD5 back which has had loads of time and money spent on it getting it just right - and use the balance to put it right (maybe a galv chassis too)?

I’d say it’s definitely worth getting a second opinion, ideally from a garage or person who is familiar with land rovers. If the chassis is damaged, it would drive the cost up considerably although there’s no mention of chassis damage.

If a second opinion disagrees with the current estimate, I’d buy it back once you’ve got an agreeable figure and get it sorted yourself.

I'd buy it back regardless...
I'm assuming you did the usual (silly mistake) of letting the insurer sort it out and they had it taken to one of their "approved" repairers?

If you have a google - I'm sure there will be information that they cannot insist on where a vehicle is taken / repaired and that you can choose.

If you buy it back at £3k and take it to a Landrover specialist who you trust - lets say they quote £3k to fix it back to it's original condition pre-accident...then you would be looking at wanting a settlement of £6k.

Good luck
And DON'T TRUST INSURANCE COMPANIES

Thanks both - agree entirely - Hind sights a great thing - looking like I could get it back and have a budget of 7K ish to get it put back to rights. Only thing is …… will my Landy have the rest of its life dogged by a CAT D or Cat C (or whatever) badge ? Will it be insurable? If I did a chassis change as part of the making good is there benefit sticking it on a Q plate to lose this history? Is a Q plate equally problematic to insure?

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/what-is-an-insurance-write-off/

You will find it more difficult to insure in the future and probably a little bit more expensive, but not outrageous, if you shop around.
I don't know for sure, but a Q plate would probably be very similar, so no advantage to that.

And it is NOT silly to want YOUR landy back.

Have they paid you any money? Surely if they haven't its technically yours? Any photos of the damage? Especially the engine mounts?

id think its highly unlikely engine and transmission have been shoved back and new mounts are cheap and easy to fit , no reason for q plate even if you fitted a galv chassis pics of damage and surrounding areas would help, ive repaired quite a few for reasonable costs using good second hand parts

If classed as a right off un-economical to repair it will be classed as Cat D, if repaired it will need an engineer inspection to put it back on the road but you keep your original registration number, a good Cat D is generally worth 20% less than a non repaired vehicle.
I would not be put off by any classification if you want to keep the Landy. I own a class D and insurance is no different to any other, just the value you will get will be reduced if you put it in another ditch. Check with your insurance company what classification they will put it in.

Tell the insurance you are not happy with their decision to write it off. Tell them you want a second opinion with another garage or an agreeable price to fix it yourself. Dont let them write it off unless you are happy for it to happen. It is your car and you decide its fate.

Scooby22 said:

If classed as a right off un-economical to repair it will be classed as Cat D, if repaired it will need an engineer inspection to put it back on the road but you keep your original registration number, a good Cat D is generally worth 20% less than a non repaired vehicle.
I would not be put off by any classification if you want to keep the Landy. I own a class D and insurance is no different to any other, just the value you will get will be reduced if you put it in another ditch. Check with your insurance company what classification they will put it in.

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The classes of cat C & D have been replaced by cat S & N

As above - NEVER trust insurance companies . Ask me how I know .

You will shortly have a PM.

Thanks all - really useful stuff. The email from the insurance company suggested a very automated process - you will get a check in 5 days - cash it anyway even if negotiations change things - treat as down payment etc. - I've told them to stop everything until I have all of the facts including the engineers report 2nd opinions etc. I like the idea of self fixed price repair meaning it remains economic.
It was put to the family vote last night - the kids have decided not getting 'Andy the Landy' back is not a option - there were nearly tears. At least some clarity on that point.

I agree with James, a 20mph sudden stop should not have knocked the engine off its mounts unless they were seriously knackered beforehand. If the engine and gearbox had been pushed back that far I would expect damage to the prop and rear axle. If you decide to buy it back, try negotiating the buy-back price. Insurers use salvage companies to buy their write-offs from them but they never pay anywhere near what they want from you.

Col

Colthebrummie said:

I agree with James, a 20mph sudden stop should not have knocked the engine off its mounts unless they were seriously knackered beforehand. If the engine and gearbox had been pushed back that far I would expect damage to the prop and rear axle. If you decide to buy it back, try negotiating the buy-back price. Insurers use salvage companies to buy their write-offs from them but they never pay anywhere near what they want from you.

Col

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Good point - well made

If it's as knackered as the insurance company think it is - offer them £999
99% of the time you will be dealing with an office based claims handler that knows more about facebook than they do about cars.
They will have a scanned doc on their computer saying xy+z is damaged and it will cost ab+c to fix it. The car is z numbers of years old with a bottom trade value of £xx.

They just want to pay you the least amount possible, sell it to a scrapper to recoup a bit and let you go away quietly.

If they get it fixed at their approved repairers (they will have a deal, so would pay nowhere near the estimate) they would also have further liability for the standard of repair and any comeback in the future.
That's the last thing they want. That's one reason they are so quick to write things off.

OK - so here is an update - I don't know whether it's good news or bad - whether I've been lucky or unlucky - whether I've been treated poorly or fairly by the insurer - but I need a plan going forward.
My Landy has now been officially written off - structurally - but when I get under (I now have it back) I certainly don't see any damage to the chassis. On the face of it you could be forgiven for thinking that all it needs is a new wing, bonnet (the catch snapped off), and centre piece, radiator grill etc. But all of that is irrelevant because as a structural write-off the car needs a new identity - which means buying another and transferring all my nice bits over. It's been returned covered in pink-ink identifying every single indentation and rust spot etc. which I assume has been done by those doing the valuation - that might be appropriate for a normal car, but a Landy? - not so sure - don't they have to have dents near the door handles to get the doors to close when cold?
The claim was initially queried because of 'modifications' - snorkel, rear LED lights and chequer plate were sited (I'd declared all of the raised suspension etc.) - it would never occur to me to declare a snorkel, chequer plate, or the fact I put nicer seats in the back - but be warned - it becomes important if you make a claim - that was a nerve-wracking period until they agreed to pay.
In the end I was able to buy back my Landy as salvage for just over a grand after complaining about the initial proposal and I have some money to boot to get another (but guess what - can't see anything as nice for the money). Options seem to be:
1. Use money for a new chassis and rebuild on mine and put on a Q plate
2. Buy the cheapest TD5 possible and make it nice using all the bits of mine - maybe include a chassis change if the money works - new clean registration
3. Part mine out and raise money for something decent off the shelf - might go for 110 next time.
I'm sure the expert inspectors must be right with their evaluation - I just wish I could see the evidence when underneath it - many of the issues were listed a 'potential / unknown' relating to the engine and gearbox - it all still seems to drive OK though. Ideas?

Is there Definitly no way to put it back on the road? I thought you could rebuild and reregister as the “structure” of a Land Rover is all replaceable unlike a modern mono shelled car.

Did you get a written report why they classed it as a write off?...if not ask... then as you now still own it get a second opinion maybe an engineer's report.
Stick some pics up might help!...

Are the main chassis rails at right angles to all the cross sections? If yer plumb line it ter the ground and mark said ground, do the diagonal lines match int length?

Thanks, I'll look into all of these but there will be no avoiding the big-brother databases going forward. If you have ever ended up on one of these through no fault of your own (number plate cloning) it is almost impossible to get your (or the cars) name cleared. The 1st challenge I had from the insurer was them saying I had not declared an historic loss - took me ages to find out who my insurer was at the time and get them to confirm that the database entry was bogus and the result of fraudulent activity by others - I have a letter now to say its not right ….. but there's no way of getting the database changed! - we are just numbers. Anyway ….. looks like I have a big collection of bits to sell and reuse.