No heater and engine overheated ... please help!

Hi guys

Forgive me if this has been done to death.

My Mondeo 1.8TD died in August this year. Engine overheated one evening. Water was pouring out of a burst pipe. Replaced pipe ... refilled with coolant and all seemed ok apart from a bad oil leak ... garage said the head gasket was gone and not worth repairing so that was that.

So I bought a M reg 300tdi Disco ... 160k miles. The lad I bought it off worked in a garage and he said that a guy had brought it in with a knackered head gasket and didn't want to pay for the repair so the lad had bought it cheap, repaired the head gasket and sold it on ( to me ). He said he had put " the thicker head gasket in so it will be fine ".

Anyway ... just gave you that in case it was useful.

I went out in the car last night and all was fine. Drove home at about midnight and all was well and the heater inside the cab was nice and warm.

Obviously very cold last night ( @ -7 ish ) and car was very frosted over this morning. I start the car and set off to Buxton. Half way there I notice that the temp gauge is up to normal ( just below half way ) but the heater is still blowing cold. I'm starting to worry about that and I hit a large hill ( Buxton is very very hilly ) and have to drop to 2nd and push it a bit.

Temp. gauge flies up towards maximum and I pull over straight away. Steam is coming from expansion resevoir. About half a pint of coolant has spilled out of resevoir.

I let engine cool and start again. Starts fine and ticks over at normal temp. I drive a mile to nearest garage and top up coolant via expansion tank. I drive all the way home ... about 20 mins and the temp stays at normal ... but the heater is still blowing cold.

Listening under the bonnet I thought I could hear some clicking coming from water pump area but it may be that I was just looking for something to hear.

Obviously seems to do with it being very very cold last night. I'm panicking that it's a head gasket thing?

What do you reckon? ... and what do I do?

Is it worth me trying to bleed coolant system for air locks and how do I do that?

Many thanks

Colin

was it coolant or just water ?

Sean said:

was it coolant or just water ?

Click to expand...

Coolant I presume?

I can't see any burst pipes. It was just hissing and bubbling out of expansion tank lid when temp gauge went very high.

It also looked a mucky brown colour.

I just topped up with half a pint as it was such a small amount.

Colin

The lad that sold it to me who said he had replaced the head gasket with a decent one said he had had the head skimmed and pressure tested.

Colin

Hi Colin,

It could be a number of things.

1. Thermostat
2. Air lock
3. Knackered water pump

Those are the things I'd check first.

I had the same issue after changing my water pump. I filled the system with water/coolant and got rid of the air blocks but had the same issue.

Mine turned out to be the thermostat. Halfords do one for £8.

I knew it wasn't the pump as I had just changed it but did double check that the belt was on properly.

You can loosen the black plastic bung on top of the thermostat housing while the engine is running, this will show you if water is coming through from the pump but be careful as if the bung snaps (like mine) it''s a bit of a pain to say the least.

My guess is that the stat is blocked closed

Guys forgive my ignorance ... I will learn.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

What else I've learned in the last hour ...

When I went to the car with the car not started ... there was hissing coming from the expansion filler cap. Not sure if that's right but letting you know.

Water in tank is brown ... but no creamy stuff. Oil inside filler cap is black with no creamy stuff.

I started car and revved and after a while engine settles at normal temp ( just below half ). I took off expansion tank cap and looked at water whilst revving and no bubbles.

I looked all around water pump and no sign of any leaks.

Difficult to tell at exhaust end as it's freezing outside so there is grey smoke on revving but I'd expect that with outside temp.

I took off that bung by stat and at first starting there was little water down there ... as you rev and car warms up that then fills up with brown water and water seems to be flowing so is that showing water pump working?

Now then ... the large diameter top pipe between stat and rad ... I don't think there's any water in that? It seems full of air? Even when the coolant boiled over today it seemed full of air? When you squeeze it you can hear gurgling? Is that indicating that the stat isn't opening and including the rad loop?

Many thanks ... please stay with me.

Colin

Purge the system, put a new stat, refill with clean coolant then bleed it properly......the cheapest and fastest method to see if something else is wrong

Hi,

My 300Tdi had a series of problems with overheating, including bursting two header tanks, and very similar symtoms to yours. Soon after, the water pump failed. Never had another overheating problem after that was replaced!

Cheers!

I've been driving it for the last 2 hours on and off. I drained a couple litres of water out and topped up with antifreeze ( in case the guy that did the head gasket in summer didn't put anti freeze in ... or enough ... I'd had to fill up expansion tank with some plain water anyway so I thought I'd put some anti freeze in ).

The heater is now hit and miss. Sometimes it comes hot and then goes cold again. It seems to come hot when you are having to rev engine more.

I'm sort of leaning towards the water pump being on the way out if not knackered. Something around the water pump area ( prob water pump ) is now singing like a canary. I put a new belt on when I bought it in August so I don't think it's the belt ... I think it's the pump.

So I dunno if the pump is the problem or if the pump has suffered from the coolant freezing ( if that's what happened ).

If the coolant is a dirty brown colour the chances are the heater matrix is full of crud and will need back flushing . The squeeling belt will the need the 1p fix as detailed on here .

to bleed-
remove rad bung and stat bung and exp. tank cap
fill thru exp tank till coolant comes out of rad.
replace exp tank cap and rad bung.
put funnel in stat bung hole.
fill with coolant.
squeeze top rad hose repeatedly and watch bubbles come up thru water in funnel. keep doing this until no bubbles come out.
remove funnel, replace bung, run up to temp. heaters should work.

re suspect head gasket and bubbles, remove exp tank cap.
the bubbles are very fine and difficult to see (think beer glass bubbles)
put a condom over exp tank cap and run engine. if it "gets errect", there a head / gasket issue.

re the budgie, as said search for 1p fix.

Many thanks guys.

I'll follow advice.

Re the 1p thing. I don't know whether the squeeking will be the belt. When I had the car in August it made a hell of a noise. At that time I took the belt off and turned all the pulleys to see if any of those felt gritty or made a noise. They didn't. At that time if you squirted wd40 on belt the noise stopped for a minute or two. So I replaced the belt and the noise was gone. Would it be the belt again after a new one was fitted a couple of months ago. I also checked the bearing on the tensioner and that was fine. Like I said .... the noise stopped when the belt was renewed.

When I take that plug out by the stat there is no water there. If you rev the car then sometimes water appears there. Should there not be water there when car is running? Could this be an air trap? If so then could the squeeking coming from the water pump area be the water pump running dry?

I'll spend more time on it tomorrow.

Many thanks again

Colin

using a long screwdriver, put a bit of pressure on the belt tensioner with the enginge running. (be careful).
if the squeek stops, do the 1p fix.

with the stat bung, yes there sould be water in there, but i dont remove the bung for fear of introducing air as it relies on a vacuum to keep it there.
would be worth checking the bleed pipe from stat housing to rad and exp tank, as these can accumulate gunk. the circular thing is a tee peice.

Ok here's an update ...

I followed the advice and ...

First thing this morning I took expansion cap off and there was a slight hiss but no explosion.

I took the two plugs off the rad and the stat and left the expansion tank top off. The water was well down at both the rad and stat points. So I filled up at the rad point until that was at the top and replaced that cap. Then refitted the expansion tank cap. Then started car. Then used a funnel at stat point to keep adding water and kept squeezing top hose until water level was full at stat point. Refitted stat cap.

Car came up to temp and heaters blew warm.

The worrying thing is it took about 2 litres of fluid to get back to normal coolant levels. So where has 2 litres of coolant gone? I can't see any external leaks anywhere. P gasket looks bone dry. So has that fluid burned off through the head gasket?

Maybe more than I thought blew off through the expansion cap when it boiled yesterday ... but why did it boil? Water levels too low for water pump to circulate? ... or water froze somewhere because previous owner didn't add antifreeze when fixing head gasket and that left a large air lock?

First thing when I started it the 'squeeking' was dreadful ( water pump running dry ). Really loud. When I filled with water the squeeking was much quieter but was still there. So maybe water pump is on the way out?

I drove the car around for a couple of hours on and off and temp stayed at normal ( I say normal ... I'd thought normal was just below half way ... since topping up with water the temp now seems to settle at about a third ). Heaters blew hot all the time.

Every time I stopped, when I returned to car I checked expansion tank. Every time I took cap off there was a slight hiss but no more and the level remained the same. ... but that is just 1 morning's driving.

I checked inside oil filler cap again on engine and that's all black and oily ... no creamy stuff. No creamy stuff either in expansion tank and I can't see any fine bubbles when I rev engine.

So I dunno ... I'm sort of convinced the water pump isn't great.

So maybe head gasket is ok ... but time will tell to see if water levels remain normal.

The car now has at least 4 litres of concentrate antifreeze so that should stop it from freezing again.

I'll remove the belt and try the pulleys later.

I can try the condom test later as well but a local garage has said they will test the head gasket for me by using that piece of kit that they put on the expansion tank with the coloured liquid in it. If the liquid changes colour the head gasket is knackered. Is that a 100% reliable test as they are saying that if it is the head gasket they can fix it for £400 to £600.

Is that about the right money? It's over half what I paid for the car and it's so annoying as the previous owner said he had changed head gasket and fitted a heavy duty one and had head skimmed.

Colin

never tried filling the stat housing with engine running, glad it worked.
be aware that although the garage are doing the sniff test (looking for exhaust gasses in coolant), it doesent prove its a gasket fault, maybe a cracked head.
not enough experience with it to say if its reliable or not.
pricewise, seems a bit steep to me, but i do my own works. last one i did approx £20 pressure test, £20 skim, £15 elring gasket (quoted between £15 - £30 for gasket) £5 fanimold gasket, couple of hours to remove head, skim and test next day, rebuilt day after. took me time on rebuild as it was the first one i'd done, followed rave, about 4 hours.

From what i have read, i feel the head gasket is ok and the moneys' going on the pump being on its last legs.

When its squeeling, give the belt a quick squirt of WD on the smooth (back) side, if the squueling stops its the 1p trick, if it carries on its likely the pump.

Could the water have dripped out the pump shaft seal without noticing?

When i refilled mine i lifted the header tank as high as possible and filled it through there until the rad was full then fitted the rad bung then filled until the stat housing was free of bubbles and fitted that bung, then squeezed all pipes until the header tank was bubble free, topped it off and job done. The heater worked well and all was good.

Instead of guessing the concentrate of antifreeze, i drained out as much as possible from the bottom hose and then pre-mixed at 50% as recommended and filled with the pre-mix, that way i knew it was right as well as fully mixed. I have a top-up bottle of pre-mix for maintenance and never use just water.

davek0974 said:

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Instead of guessing the concentrate of antifreeze, i drained out as much as possible from the bottom hose and then pre-mixed at 50% as recommended and filled with the pre-mix, that way i knew it was right as well as fully mixed. I have a top-up bottle of pre-mix for maintenance and never use just water.

Click to expand...

i drop the coolant from the exp tank pipe as its easier to remove. poke it downwards and remove the bungs. reattach and bleed as i described.

Yes thats what i did too, i only said bottom hose as the two are connected and its the lowest hose on the engine. It worked well and its high enough to be able to drain into a bucket if needed.

Cheers guys

I took the belt off and turned the water pump pulley by hand. There didn't seem any excessive play and as I turned it through 360 degrees it seemed smooth enough with no gritty or resistant points. I put the belt back on and squirted it with WD40 and it didn't stop the squeeking so I do think it is the pump.

I'll monitor the water level over the next few days and hopefully it will hold it's level.

I too drained via the expansion tank hose by holding that down.

Thanks again

Col