Newer Range Rover: would you go for RRS or FFRR?

I like the L322.
But if i had the chance to choose between the L322 with the td6 engine and the GM autobox or the Sport with the 2.7 tdv6 engine and ZF autobox i would go for the last one. Having a diesel P38 myself (which i only drove for a few days without it being chipped), im yet to find a reason for someone buy such an expensive car with that engine when they came out. And the same goes for the L322 with the td6 engine. Their just to bad to be true. Now with the TDV8 engine no doubt that the L322 would be my choice.

Datatek said:

TBH if I had the money I wouldn't touch any LR product with a barge pole, they are all overpriced crap, all showroom glitz and bugger all quality. My mates L322 is a constant source of problems...

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Weird isn't it, those guys who drove from London to Cape Town praised their L322 for it's reliability and made it without issue!

I still can't decide but off to view and test drive a Td6 L322 tonight to see what all the fuss is about

Datatek said:

TBH if I had the money I wouldn't touch any LR product with a barge pole, they are all overpriced crap, all showroom glitz and bugger all quality. :

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That was cold....my P38 has a soul. :angel:

MikeV8SE said:

Weird isn't it, those guys who drove from London to Cape Town praised their L322 for it's reliability and made it without issue!

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No doubt specially prepaired and probably new. If it was sponsored no issues would have been admitted

For all it has a couple of niggles I love my l322. So much so that contrary to plans I will not be trading it for something else this year. As for chrome and bling, there is not one bit of chrome on her, I suppose the tinted windows might be classed as bling/gangsta. OR they could be considered another stage in the defence against the sun for my doggie.
I suppose the choice of full fat or sport comes down to why you want it. I have horses, and dogs and a need for space, so L322 is the right one for me. If you have none of the above then sport is probably fine.

Datatek said:

.
If I had £15K to spend I would be in a Land Cruiser, the P38 only cost £4850 by comparison, it was the cheapest 4 x 4 I could find. Why are secondhand LR products so cheap compared to Toyota? Cos they are crap

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Travel in a land cruiser and then a p38 of similar age. No contest the p38 is a far more comfortable vehicle. In fact my p38 is far more refined and comfortable than my friends 10 year younger mitsubishi shogun. P38 is not as reliable, sure, in fact the reliability is pretty hopeless (esp the german bits!). But i will happily trade some reliability to get a more accomplished vehicle. Hence choosing land rover.....

Cheers

Jerry

Datatek said:

No doubt specially prepaired and probably new. If it was sponsored no issues would have been admitted

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Far from it! Standard 2003 Td6 car taken on the trip in 2010: Vehicle

Much as I appreciate the all round excellence of the L322, I can't take the ugliness and out of proportion looks (much too tall from the back) and to me (my opinion counts with me) the RRS is a much better balanced looking vehicle, and nearer my beloved P38 in looks. It's a shame about the chaved-up WAG mobiles that have so polarised opinion. By the way has anyone found the RRS limits off-road? Even on road tyres it's still a formidable Land Rover. Mike, you are a lucky man, I'd join you in the RRS

jerrytlr said:

Travel in a land cruiser and then a p38 of similar age. No contest the p38 is a far more comfortable vehicle. In fact my p38 is far more refined and comfortable than my friends 10 year younger mitsubishi shogun. P38 is not as reliable, sure, in fact the reliability is pretty hopeless (esp the german bits!). But i will happily trade some reliability to get a more accomplished vehicle. Hence choosing land rover.....

Cheers

Jerry

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As it happens, I test drove a Land Cruiser before I bought the P38, but could not afford the price. I can't say I found it particularly unrefined.
I have also had Pajero's and a Galloper. Definately not as refined as the P38, but all of them totaly reliable, sadly out of my price range,

I followed the L322 to Cape Town in LRO, and from memory it was a 53 plate (so not new) and had a collapsed wheel bearing during the trip. Still can't get away with the looks tho'

davef2901 said:

I followed the L322 to Cape Town in LRO, and from memory it was a 53 plate (so not new) and had a collapsed wheel bearing during the trip. Still can't get away with the looks tho'

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not too bad then i guess
least you turn up in style !
haha

In the magazine reports, if I went to Cape Town I'd bloody well stay there

davef2901 said:

Much as I appreciate the all round excellence of the L322, I can't take the ugliness and out of proportion looks (much too tall from the back) and to me (my opinion counts with me) the RRS is a much better balanced looking vehicle, and nearer my beloved P38 in looks. It's a shame about the chaved-up WAG mobiles that have so polarised opinion. By the way has anyone found the RRS limits off-road? Even on road tyres it's still a formidable Land Rover. Mike, you are a lucky man, I'd join you in the RRS

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I actually like the looks of both vehicles, but agree that the RRS looks more balanced - I absolutely love the front end of the original RRS models, looks brilliant.

As for offroad ability, this guy seems to give it a good go! RRSPORT.CO.UK • View topic - Range Rover Sport Extreme Offroad

I went and viewed/test drove the FFRR Vogue tonight, here's my thoughts, positives first:

- Car was in really good nick, a lovely looking example
- Fantastic interior and seats, very comfy and loads of room, loved the inside
- It is HUGE, the physical size of it outside was surprising - must be a to park
- Very familiar; sat nav, interior lights and switchgear idential to my BMW E46 330Ci!
- Quality was superb, seats were supportive and comfortable and loved the gadgets

Now the negatives:

- Firstly, the steering seemed very heavy once you got past 10 and 2 o'clock points, not sure if that was specific to this example?
- The engine felt REALLY rough. I don't think it was a bad car - under 60,000 miles with a FLRSH and only 2 owners - but it felt very agricultural, rough and not particularly fast. When I did accelerate up a slip road, it didn't seem happy about being revved and I would say my 3.9 Classic was a fair bit quicker.
- Felt quite heavy, not exactly nimble as others had described.

As it happened, the chap also had a TDV6 RR Sport for sale, which I took out for a spin as a comparison. Felt much more nimble, nicer to drive and I preffered the cosseting cabin, although the FFRR is in another league in terms of quality and comfort.

Overall, I think it is going to be an RR Sport for me - I preferred the driving experience, the engine was a lot smoother and I don't need the extra room. To be honest, the engine ruined it for me - I'd probably love a V8, but can't have LPG as cant take it on the channel tunnel and no good in Morocco either!

I must say I'm with Data on this one. When i was looking for a 4x4 the P38 was an obvious choice, just because of it's price. Price comparison was dead simple:
1995 Land Cruiser 100: 15k€
1995 Range Rover: 4k€
Both 300k km.

It's a no brainer to me. Actually i thought the P38 a bit bland looking at first but hey, it got to me. I like it's driving position, the presence, offroad ability and funnily even the consumption of the 2.5 Diesel. It's actually better then my old Berlingo 1.4i... I'd prefer a more reliable car, but have to knock on wood, nothing seriously wrong with it. I have some developing problems (rumbling in the drivetrain which gets worse on overrun and dodgy rear height sensors), but i'll just wait 'till i can diagnose it better. It's my everyday drive and the only car i have now.

If i had to choose between the l322 and l320.. its l322 to me. Haven't driven either, but i am a interior space whore and should probably buy a van anyway

When i gave up my company car, a Touareg tdi i wanted something affordable that would give me the same comfort , road presence etc.....which lead me to a P38. I think its 5 x the car of the touareg (38k new)! with the V8 its better to drive & with LPG fitted its actually cheaper to run than the touareg. Paid just over 6k for a 2002 model...now that represents good value. As long as your prepared to set aside some funds for servicing & keeping on top of maintenance the p38s are a top class buy. I also like the RRS but dont like the stigma & i actually like driving around in something not seen everywhere, everyday!

Its a tough one! The L322 is very big. The RRS is a much closer match to the P38 in size but seems smaller inside.

TBH if I had to replace my P38 and couldn't find a nice cheap 2002 one I'd go for a Disco3. The advantage of 7 seats would at least go some way to making up for the size.

MikeV8SE said:

I actually like the looks of both vehicles, but agree that the RRS looks more balanced - I absolutely love the front end of the original RRS models, looks brilliant.

As for offroad ability, this guy seems to give it a good go! RRSPORT.CO.UK • View topic - Range Rover Sport Extreme Offroad

I went and viewed/test drove the FFRR Vogue tonight, here's my thoughts, positives first:

- Car was in really good nick, a lovely looking example
- Fantastic interior and seats, very comfy and loads of room, loved the inside

- It is HUGE, the physical size of it outside was surprising - must be a

to park
- Very familiar; sat nav, interior lights and switchgear idential to my BMW E46 330Ci!
- Quality was superb, seats were supportive and comfortable and loved the gadgets

Now the negatives:

- Firstly, the steering seemed very heavy once you got past 10 and 2 o'clock points, not sure if that was specific to this example?
- The engine felt REALLY rough. I don't think it was a bad car - under 60,000 miles with a FLRSH and only 2 owners - but it felt very agricultural, rough and not particularly fast. When I did accelerate up a slip road, it didn't seem happy about being revved and I would say my 3.9 Classic was a fair bit quicker.

- Felt quite heavy, not exactly nimble as others had described.

As it happened, the chap also had a TDV6 RR Sport for sale, which I took out for a spin as a comparison. Felt much more nimble, nicer to drive and I preffered the cosseting cabin, although the FFRR is in another league in terms of quality and comfort.

Overall, I think it is going to be an RR Sport for me - I preferred the driving experience, the engine was a lot smoother and I don't need the extra room. To be honest, the engine ruined it for me - I'd probably love a V8, but can't have LPG as cant take it on the channel tunnel and no good in Morocco either!

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Having owned a TDV6 Disco 3 for 3 years and driven a L322 TD6 quite a few times the TDV6 makes the TD6 seem prehistoric. Whilst a step up from the 2.5 in the P38, because of the extra weight in the L322 the engine is simply not up to the job. Land Rover or BMW should be ashamed for letting a prestige £40K+ motor leave the factory with such an asthmatic engine under the bonnet. Until the TDV8 becomes more affordable its a good old V8 P38 for me.

I second that :clap2:

martynv8 said:

I second that :clap2:

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I third it! The Ford/PSA V6 is soooo much better than the beemer lump. The TDV8 in another league still.

i cant complain about my TD6 engine

once chipped it goes like a rocket
enough for my liking anyway for a heavy lump of a car