P38A New here with problems

Hi all, I'm new.

Always been a Volvo family as my uncle worked for them, but the recent death of the auto box in my mothers v70 two weeks before a planned trip to Ireland has prompted an impulse purchase of a cheap '97 DSE. Not logical I know but her and her other half have always fancied one and it didn't seem too bad considering the money. By the time I delivered it to them 100 miles later the same couldn't be said. It has a few faults it's safe to say!

before buying I noticed:

GPs run even when hot and won't start w/o. Since realised it's an IDI engine like my old Volvo 740 has so maybe normalish, still doesn't seem quite right to me though.
Battery small i think
Radio crap
Pax side mixer motor failed
Glove box broken
Headlining
Sunroof lining
Central locking won't lock pax door
Remote locking doesn't work
Only one key (2)
Cruise control buttons seem to do different things each time you press them, normally requiring both together to get it to set properly but sometimes one will work.
And I thought a wheel bearing was going.

By the time I arrived I now think that the rear final drive has eaten it's crown wheel rather than a wheel bearing was going :/ new 2 pin final drive ordered from eBay to fit Saturday.

Central locking is also fairly urge to fix as its a right pain to lock all doors. Locking with the key in the drivers door locks everything but the pax door. Locking the pax door locks everything but the drivers door and the rest then unlock when the drivers door is opened and won't re lock with the key. The fob has a button physically missing from the chip so a new rubber won't fix that. Both buttons do however work when pressed/shorted with a key. Has no effect on vehicle at all. Alarm down not seem to activate.

Plan is to change final drive and all fluids this weekend, give it a good clean inside and out and have a play with the pax door lock motor to see if I can persuade it back to life. Also need to obtain a new battery of the requisite size from local agri supplier.

Hopefully that should see it ok for Ireland. Other than the axle rumble/vibration/knock it drove really nice with gearbox and motor feeling good.

I'll get some photos and some more plans over the weekend as I learn more about range rovers as I'm a complete newbie to them. Any advice re the issues or my plans would be very much appreciated.

By the way, she's done 182000 miles and I paid £1400. In hindsight I'd now like to have paid less but I didn't think it was too bad at the time. Diff cost £100.

Richard

Welcome mate their not faults there quircks

Welcome!

Oh boy. Started like so many of us. Think you've bought a bit of a project from the sound of it.

If you haven't already then download RAVE. It is free and will tell you everything you need to know. Well, almost. If it isn't in the Technical Section then I think it is available at www.landroverresource.com or something like that.

Glow plugs mean the hotfix has probably been fitted. I'd leave it.

Have a search. Batteries are a common one. Should be able to get a good 1000CCA one in there.

Headlining is an afternoon's work. See Dopey's How To in the Technical Section.

Fob: might want to contact @MrSporty on here.

Door locks are @martyuk area of expertise but he's away at the moment. The door locks from the MGF of similar age are similar and the locking motors the same. They just unclip and swap over. Or wait till Marty gets back for a decenet fully refurbished lock with new micro-switches and motors and whatever.

Yeah, my radio can be a bit crap. Classic FM is picked up better than Radio 2!

Glove box: yeah, bit sh!t, isn't it?!

Blend motor or whatever: yes, total sod! THere's a write up somewhere.

Welcome to the P38 mad house... I say that affectionately as once the niggles are worked out, they are really nice vehicles!

My area of interest/expertise is on the locking/alarm/immobiliser side. And most things electrical.
From what you've described, the CDL motors are dead in both the front door latches. It's a known problem that they can burn out due to notorious RF interference problems. The updated RF receivers (are expensive) but pretty much fix the problems with interference/BECM not sleeping and front door motors burning out.

as Grrrrr mentions - I refurbish door latched, and fit them with new microswitches. There are also occasionally just new motors that come up on eBay for about £20 each, which if you are a DIYer and don't mind pulling things apart, then the motors are pretty easy to swap.

Fob/alarm etc - the key probably isn't synced to the vehicle which is why the remote isn't doing anything - or maybe the previous owner has unplugged the RF receiver aswell to try to stop battery drain issues. The PCB's can be fixed and new switches fitted. It is something I could do, but a) I don't have any of the switches or cases to actually do it and b) I'm away working with my day job until the 21st.

The head unit in the earlier ones lets the rest of the system down a bit, and the FM reception leaves a bit to be desired - especially if the rear windows are tinted it seems.

Glove box lock can be adjusted to get it latching better

Blend motor is a bit of a pain - but the LHS one is easier to do than the RHS

Good luck with fixing the niggles... if you are interested in refurbished latches, then drop me a message and I can let you know when I'm back to be able to send them out.

Cheers for the quick replies gents

Ok, so I need to play with both front motors then, I'd like to think I'd be able to fix them as my degree covered a lot of electronics but I won't have the required parts this weekend. If I get stumped then I'll be in touch Marty. How hard are the rf receivers to repair?

Head unit is an aftermarket 90s looking Sony so I'll be lookin to replace with a nice original alpine or similar. The Sony sometimes the volume does the opposite of what you request and it doesn't seem to tune right.

Thanks again

Welcome! You have come to the right place for help with your car.

The wealth of experience and the willingness of the 'wise ones' on this forum to help people with problems never ceases to amaze me.

Do keep us updated on your progress and share any hints and tips you come across.

Pete

Do a search for RF receiver. You'll get a shed load of hits. BrianDSE has a £5 workaround using a remote 12v switch. The proper fix for a new receiver is about £160. All the new one seems to do is filter out some frequencies so it should be simple for an electronics wizard. Most on here are happier with hammers than soldering irons.

here is the cheep rf fix
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/rf-reciever-work-round.258096/

Of all the issues I would tackle the lack of keys and get the door locks working properly.
You have key no 2? The faulty board can probably be repaired but I would get a new number 1 from Land Rover.

SpiggyTopes said:

Of all the issues I would tackle the lack of keys and get the door locks working properly.
You have key no 2? The faulty board can probably be repaired but I would get a new number 1 from Land Rover.

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If you're going to keep her then +1 on that. It is £160 for a new key from the Stealers but one of the best investments I ever made, especially as my old key is worn.

Likewise - I stumped up the extra for a new key this year as I didn't have a spare either. Am definitely a lot happier having the second one! Don't let the dealer try and charge you extra to 'program' it though - as they come programmed to your vehicle from the factory, and just need syncing to the vehicle.

RF Receivers... the first gen ones had no filtering in them at all, and cause the most problems. The second gen ones which came in about 1999 had better filtering in them to cut out a lot of spurious RF, but would still listen to anything on the 433mhz band - which includes other car remotes, garage doors, weather stations etc.. The 3rd gen (and the expensive one - google YWY500170) actually has some extra components in it, as as far as I have been able to figure out, it actually checks the sent packet from the key fob for a specific P38 header code in the transmission. If this matches what it expects, it then passes it on to the BECM for checking to make sure that it matches the actual ID stored in the BECM and it will then unlock/lock the vehicle. If the header of the transmission doesn't match, then the receiver won't pass anything on or wake the BECM up - thus solving the constant waking up problem that the older receivers had.

I am pretty sure I know what the string of bits is that the new receiver looks for, but I don't have the knowledge on being able to program something to receive this, process it, and then send it on to the BECM if it checks out. I'd on my list of things to work on, but it's not a high priority for me as I bought the upgraded receiver a few years ago!

Yes, I bought the upgraded receiver for about £50 and was pretty ****ed off at the price. And then it went ballistic as everyone else tried to buy one as the problem became more widely known or wifi and weather stations became more prevalent. Prices now are taking the urine.

Changed the final drive today. About 4mm end float and 2mm lateral in the pinion bearing. Not sure if that was the cause or consequence of the two missing teeth off he pinion gear!

New 019 battery fitted has it turnin over nice and fast and the air suspension and levy mirrors seem to be working better now too.

Just need I change the engine oil, front diff oil and fix the door locks tomorrow.

Such a nice place to travel, like sitting on a sofa. Comfortable as my Volvo but very different.

Took the front doors apart today and both front door motors are definitely dead, couldn't get the motors to come back to life and someone's been there before and butchered the drivers door membrane :/ new motors are on order.

Did find out that the antenna had been disconnected from the receiver and with that plugged back in and using the dealer coding method I've got the remote back to life. Just need new buttons for it now, and of course new lock motors so that it can do more than just the back doors!

I will try and get some photos!

Rich

With the receiver back in you may find the battery draining unless you get the newer receiver or use BrianDSE's fix. Also, it will burn your central locking motors out which is almost certainly what happened to yours.

Grrrrrr said:

With the receiver back in you may find the battery draining unless you get the newer receiver or use BrianDSE's fix. Also, it will burn your central locking motors out which is almost certainly what happened to yours.

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Grrrr, Why does it burn out the CL motors?? I understand that the battery drain is due to the BECM waking up, but does it unlock/lock the doors as well??

Main reason I ask is as follows.
On mine, left for a week at home, it was fine and started up no problem, but when I left it for 4 weeks in the mother in laws garage in Czech, it was flat as a pancake.
Now, does this suggest that I got lucky at home and there was no wifi interfering with it, but in Czech there was or do you think it has the later receiver and 4 weeks is just too long to expect it to last.

It's currently hooked up to a trickle charger when we're away, but I'm worried now that it'll burn the locks out??

I don't see why the BeCM being woken up would cause the lock to burn out, unless it is programmed to relock them when it senses a signal that it doesn't need to respond to. I would have thought they are more likely to burn out just from being crap like most central locking motors in lots of different cars do! Don't even get me started on Peugeot 306 ones!

As for the battery running down, that makes perfect sense, and if we start seeing issues then I'll get hold of the updated one, I don't fancy the idea of a second relay to turn on the receiver. I believe it may already have a second gen receiver.

Diffs leaking as I neglected to rtv the flanges so that needs doing next Saturday, new break caliper carriers on the way, and carrier bolts. Also a key refurb kit, check straps and gas struts for the tailgate so looks like another busy day!

Rich

RAW111111 said:

I don't see why the BeCM being woken up would cause the lock to burn out, unless it is programmed to relock them when it senses a signal that it doesn't need to respond to. I would have thought they are more likely to burn out just from being crap like most central locking motors in lots of different cars do! Don't even get me started on Peugeot 306 ones!

As for the battery running down, that makes perfect sense, and if we start seeing issues then I'll get hold of the updated one, I don't fancy the idea of a second relay to turn on the receiver. I believe it may already have a second gen receiver.

Diffs leaking as I neglected to rtv the flanges so that needs doing next Saturday, new break caliper carriers on the way, and carrier bolts. Also a key refurb kit, check straps and gas struts for the tailgate so looks like another busy day!

Rich

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As far as I know, the 2nd gen RF receivers don't solve the issue, only the 3rd gen which are stupidly expensive as far as I'm aware.

Wazzajnr said:

Grrrr, Why does it burn out the CL motors?? I understand that the battery drain is due to the BECM waking up, but does it unlock/lock the doors as well??

Main reason I ask is as follows.
On mine, left for a week at home, it was fine and started up no problem, but when I left it for 4 weeks in the mother in laws garage in Czech, it was flat as a pancake.
Now, does this suggest that I got lucky at home and there was no wifi interfering with it, but in Czech there was or do you think it has the later receiver and 4 weeks is just too long to expect it to last.

It's currently hooked up to a trickle charger when we're away, but I'm worried now that it'll burn the locks out??

Click to expand...

It seems to confuse the BECM. The motors have a very very low power requirement. When you lock it (or unlock) it send a very short pulse of power. Because the pulse is so short it doesn't damage the motor even though it is more than the motor can handle. it means the motor goes damn quick though. For some reason the receiver issue seems to cycle the locks on/off very quickly without actually doing anything other than letting enough power go through to fry the motors. If you take a motor apart you'll see why as the electrical path is wafer thin.

Biggest problem seems to be Wireless weather stations or other cheap kit on 433. BT wifi is a newer culprit people have been pointing the finger at. Either way, you need either Brian's 12V remote switch or the v3 receiver with the green dot. You never know where you might leave it overnight and if it is drawing an amp or 2 then a battery won't last long as anyone who has left their interior lights on will know.

Grrrrrr said:

It seems to confuse the BECM. The motors have a very very low power requirement. When you lock it (or unlock) it send a very short pulse of power. Because the pulse is so short it doesn't damage the motor even though it is more than the motor can handle. it means the motor goes damn quick though. For some reason the receiver issue seems to cycle the locks on/off very quickly without actually doing anything other than letting enough power go through to fry the motors. If you take a motor apart you'll see why as the electrical path is wafer thin.

Biggest problem seems to be Wireless weather stations or other cheap kit on 433. BT wifi is a newer culprit people have been pointing the finger at. Either way, you need either Brian's 12V remote switch or the v3 receiver with the green dot. You never know where you might leave it overnight and if it is drawing an amp or 2 then a battery won't last long as anyone who has left their interior lights on will know.

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I couldn't care less about battery drain as I would expect a decent battery of that size to last overnight at a couple of amps.
When it's left any length of time I'll just leave the trickle charger on. I'm just worried about frying the door motors. Of all types of work on cars, I detest working on doors more than anything.
Think I need to suss out a way to isolate the door motors when it's left a long time.
Either that or come up with a better motor system but then that involves working with doors............. I know now why you're called Grrrrrr.!!!!